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Server Time: 2/13/2012 5:26:41 PM PACIFIC |
 Horrendous Plays or Badluck?, mroban, 12. Nov 2003 15:25 | ||
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| So the other night I dropped my entire $100 buyin playing NL at UB. I was around even for an hour and then got whacked in about 10 minutes with the following 2 hands (with a badly played hand for $10 in between, but thats another story). First hand. I am dealt AQ suited on the button. One limper and I raise 3x the blind and am immediately called by the SB, a player I didn't have much of a read on. The limper folds. The flop comes Q42rainbow. The SB makes a small bet and I immediately put her on KQ and reraise her $10. To my surprise, she flat calls and I think I have her. The turn is another rag (a 6 I think) and she bets out at me. Convinced that she doesn't have a set (which she would have slowplayed I think) I reraise her and she re-raises allin (her stack was at $45 when we started, mine was $97). I call her without hesitation. The river is another 2 and instead of the chips getting pushed to me, she shows Q2o and a full house. Since she called a preflop raise, the idea that she would play Qrag never even entered my head. She hadn't done anything fishy before this. There was no other card on board above a 6. So now my stack is at $48 and I am pissed off. I made a snarky (but lighthearted) joke about calling raises preflop with garbage and we exchanged some light banter. This was apparantly a very fishy table (there were some unbelievably bad play going on with at least 3 other players) so I figured I would win this back being patient for a bit. Well...I overplayed another hand with top pair top kicker and got reraised allin and folded. Guy made a set of 222. Again, I had AQo and hit a Q on the flop, made a raise and he reraised. Unreal. Good fold though. Anyway...I short while later (stack down to $38) I get dealt K8o in the SB and get 4 limpers. So I call for .50 with decent odds and the BB checks. The flop comes Kh9s7h6c. I have top pair and an open ended straight draw. I open bet (I think a pot sized raise) the BB calls (the same player that beat me before) all limpers fold except one of the really fishy players who flat calls. we are now 3 handed. The turn is a blank, and I am afraid of a K with a better kicker but I might have the best hand right now and I have the open ended straight draw. Worried the fish is playing a flush draw I make a large raise ($18 pot sized raise). The BB folds immediately and the fish sits for a long time. Waits, waits, waits. Finally, he decides to call. Does he have a better king or does he have a flush draw? He was the third limper and would have raised with any kind of premium hand. The best hand he could possibly have I decide is KT. This guy was so bad he could have anything (he had won a big pot earlier with Ace high his AK winning against anothers AJ...both were just awful players the first player going all in on a bluff and this guy calling). Anyway, the river is a 5h making my straight. But also making his flush. I have $11 left and I am going to call a bet if I check, so I think about betting allin. I don't. I check, he bets my last $11 and i call fearing the flush. Sure enough, this guy was playing a QhTh flush draw with an inside straight draw as well. I cannot believe he called 2 huge bets with a hand like that. I thought I played this hand pretty well and I had the right odds to play it that way. Was this horrendous play on my part or should I chalk both up to bad luck? Maybe I just didn't read the table well enough to know the player to my left was capable of making such a fishy call preflop. The second hand I had the right odds to put my chips in and he got lucky. But obviously that is a profitable long term play against a player like this. | ||
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| Re: Horrendous Plays or Badluck?, Eman, 14. Nov 2003 07:31 | ||
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| In no limit cash games. One rule I like to follow most of the time is Not commiting a lot of my chips when I only have a pair (regardless of having the A kicker), you still only had a pair. A pair doesnt usually win a big pot. The two hands where you lost most of your money was when you only had a pair. The first hand where the other player had Q2, I wouldnt have tried to bet as aggressive as you did. Theres was no flush or straight draw, so he had to have a good piece of the flop when he called your bets. The second hand with K8, i would have mucked that preflop....That hand will only get you in trouble. Case proven!!! | ||
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| Re: Horrendous Plays or Badluck?, Palinya, 17. Nov 2003 13:21 | ||
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| K8o is completely horrible in a limit game but if you can see the flop for $0.50 in a no limit game it might be worth it. If you do though, you can really only put more in after the flop if you pair both the K and the 8... and preferably if they are top 2 pair with no other draws out there. This will not happen very often and it is much more questionable with many players against you but if you. With just a few players though, spending $0.50 isn't too bad if you think you can get a huge pot out of it on the off chance it doesn hit. Still, it's probably best to throw it away... you will get better hands | ||
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| Re: Horrendous Plays or Badluck?, mrbishop, 17. Nov 2003 12:40 | ||
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| "Anyway...I short while later (stack down to $38) I get dealt K8o in the SB and get 4 limpers. So I call for .50 with decent odds and the BB checks. The flop comes Kh9s7h6c. " Eman makes an interesting point, he would have folding this hand pre-flop. I'm new at this, but I do know that according to Slansky's book, "Hold'Em Poker", K9o is pretty much the weakest of the 72 hands he recommends considering pre-flop. So my interpretation is K8o falls outside those 72 hands, and definitely shouldn't be played from an early position like one of the blinds. But maybe I'm looking at his "rules" too rigidly? Maybe there are considerations like the table "looseness" that should be considered? | ||
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| Re: Horrendous Plays or Badluck?, Palinya, 17. Nov 2003 13:25 | ||
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| I'm new at this, but I do know that according to Slansky's book, "Hold'Em Poker"... This book doesn't cover No Limit and the starting hands are very different. In no-limit you can be a little looser pre-flop if you can get in for cheap but I think you need to be a lot tighter before you throw in lots of money. Top pair with good kicker is great in a limit game... I wouldn't put too much on it in NL though. Top pair getting killed with pocket AA or a set isn't devasting in a limit game... it could be in no limit | ||
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| Re: Horrendous Plays or Badluck?, mrbishop, 18. Nov 2003 12:14 | ||
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| "This book doesn't cover No Limit and the starting hands are very different. In no-limit you can be a little looser pre-flop ..." Cool - can you point me to a book/guide that explains how much looser you can get away with pre-flop? | ||
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