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Server Time: 2/13/2012 4:58:47 PM PACIFIC |
 What would you do?, Jeff, 12. Nov 2003 04:46 | ||
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| Your on the BB with KQs one early position limper and the small blind raises. He is loose aggressive player. I call and the EP calls, three way action. Flop comes K 10 4 rainbow. SB bets I make it two EP makes it three, SB calls. Turn is a 7 two clubs onboard. SB checks I check Ep bets. Sb folds I call. River is a 2 no flush. Ep has K 10. Just wanted to know what the more experienced players on here thought. Was I supposed to lay my hand down? Or did I play it correct? | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, shorn, 12. Nov 2003 07:46 | ||
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| This would be a tough fold since all of the pre-flop and flop action made the pot big enough for you to call. You have a pretty decent hand for that flop against two opponents. I would have to know the EP player very well to lay it down. | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, MA's Dad, 12. Nov 2003 08:19 | ||
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| These are the same type hands I am wrestling with. I usually bet and then check/call on the river in EP, too, and seem to win more often than not. And of course, it depends on who I am up against, but it is hard to fold that top pair with no straight or flush draws. If KQ or KJ show up on the flop, I guess I should be a bit more cautious. | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, MA's Dad, 12. Nov 2003 08:23 | ||
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| on 12. Nov 2003 08:19 MA's Dad wrote: > > If KQ or KJ show up on the flop, I guess I should be a bit more cautious. Oops. Forgot you had KQ in your hand. My little scenario assumed I only had the top pair. and a marginal kicker. | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, mkpoker, 12. Nov 2003 11:25 | ||
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| on 12. Nov 2003 04:46 Jeff wrote: > Your on the BB with KQs one early position limper and the small blind raises. > He is loose aggressive player. I call and the EP calls, three way action. Flop > comes K 10 4 rainbow. SB bets I make it two EP makes it three, SB calls. Turn > is a 7 two clubs onboard. SB checks I check Ep bets. Sb folds I call. River > is a 2 no flush. > Ep has K 10. > Just wanted to know what the more experienced players on here thought. Was I > supposed to lay my hand down? Or did I play it correct? That's a tough one. Because the EP limped, I think you can assume he doesn't hold AA, AK, KK, or TT--hands that really dominate you. Still, 3-betting the flop against a better AND a raiser is a very aggressive play. Unless he's borderline maniacal, I doubt he'd re-raise with just a draw, like QJ. And it's highly, highly doubtful he'd re-raise on a stone-cold bluff. So what might he have? KT is the most obvious. I'd also throw KQ, KJ, AT, and 44 into the mix. If he's got KT, you're down to three outs, just over a 15:1 shot. But you're getting 15:1 on the final flop call, so I would call and hope for the best on the turn. When the turn comes a blank, I think I'd lead out, rather than check. If he raises (which I suspect he would have done), you can fold with a very clear conscience. A turn raise would virtually guarantee that he can beat top-pair top-kicker...and you'd no longer have the right odds to chase a 3-outer. By checking, I think you're begging for a bet. In this situation, I doubt he'd call a bet with a hand like AT, but he might bet out after you've shown weakness by checking. Leading, instead of calling, forces him to define his hand. You didn't say, but did he make a river bet (I assume he did and you called) | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, shorn, 12. Nov 2003 11:58 | ||
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| Good point mk...a turn bet is definitely in order here and if raised you can lay it down as he wouldn't raise you if he were still drawing (unless he is a maniac or you were playing higher levels where folks can semi-bluff raise twice with a draw). | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, LJH, 12. Nov 2003 14:32 | ||
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| JEFF, YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO RAISE FROM THE GET GO, AND KEEP ON RAISING. LJH. | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, Rich P., 12. Nov 2003 17:05 | ||
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| First, you missed a bet pre-flop. You might not have had to face this situation if you had reraised preflop. When someone threebets the flop with no flush or straight draw out there you have to immediately put that opponent on two pair or a set, most likely two pair as the players will often slowplay a set. While the straight draw is there, with only three opponents it is less likely that the player would be raising on a straight draw though it is possible. As for laying it down, that's a tough situation. I'm still working on it. You pretty much have to call the one small bet on the flop. You might throw out a bet on the turn to see if he raises you. Then you can be sure and save one big bet, or your bet may scare him and you will get a free showdown. Then again, he might call the turn but bet the river leaving you no better off than had you called him down, but no worse. His most likely hand is two pair, because he probably would have slowplayed a set, tried to draw out cheaply, or just called with a lower kicker. Still, even if we assume that he has a 40% chance of having two pair and a 20% chance of a set, there's still a 40% chance he has something less. Add the chance that if he has a open ended straight draw, then has a 25% chance of making it on the river, it does appear that a fold was in order. Thanks for bringing this up. It has helped me think through the situation for myself. | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, Jeff, 14. Nov 2003 08:07 | ||
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| Thanks for all the comments. After reading all of your posts and reflecting, I agree I should have lead out on the turn. When he raised I would have been pretty sure he had a set or two pair. Thanks again for your comments. | ||
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