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Server Time: 2/13/2012 7:45:18 PM PACIFIC |
 Question about pre-flop hands, Jojo, 11. Nov 2003 21:11 | ||
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| I generally play sng and pl and nl low limit tables. I do well, but I tend to be on the safe side with my pre-flop calls and I feel I play well as soon as I see the flop. I tend to play any pocket pair, A suited, K suited, and any combo between 10 through A. I will generally fold hands such as J 9 suited, Q 8 suited, A 9 os and such. My question is...Am i just giving away money in the long run by not playing these hands? Should I start trying to play these hands until I am comfortable? Thank you in advance! | ||
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| Re: Question about pre-flop hands, Aisthesis, 11. Nov 2003 21:34 | ||
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| One thing I've been learning a lot about lately is how much position and opponents influence these criteria. In early position, a lot of the hands you are talking about are clearly unplayable. In LP unraised I think several others are playable and perhaps even better than some of the ones you mention (suited connectors and suited one-gappers like J9s). Pairs are also kind of an art in themselves. I rather like to raise them pretty heavily pre-flop because I think they play better shorthanded. But I'd be rather cautious with the low ones and probably fold anything less than 88 in EP (and I'm really loose on this by the standards of a lot of the better players here). | ||
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| Re: Question about pre-flop hands, Jojo, 12. Nov 2003 14:04 | ||
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| Okay, quick follow up question to that. So, lets say for example's sake, I have 3, 4 suited one seat right of the small blind..in a 10 man tourney with 3 people behind me that posted the blind. Is this a solid time to bet a blind or would my money be better off, in the long run, to hold on to there. I understand there are always other things to factor in, but just using the above factors, what do you think? | ||
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| Re: Question about pre-flop hands, Aisthesis, 12. Nov 2003 16:18 | ||
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| I'm sure KJo's completely right about varying one's play in the interest of unpredictability and definitely on the general value of Ax and Kx. As for your example, I wouldn't call 43s terribly often in that case (unfortunately I can't look at the exact number of limpers you put in there while writing this). I'd give it a "very rarely" with 2 limpers (if I understand you correctly, you're on the button) and call more the more limpers you have (with everyone limping in, I'd give it an "almost always"). Particularly if the table is fairly passive, it's another reason to call more often on the button or button-1 since you have the additional possibility of being able to buy the pot it no one hits the flop (that scenario of course becomes LESS likely the more people are in the hand). A good reason NOT to call with 43s in case of doubt would be if SB or BB raise a lot pre-flop. So, in my opinion anyway, whatever that is worth, while 43s if pretty minimal, I'd be willing to limp with it a lot of the time in LP, would probably do it more often in your example if the 2 callers were pretty passive/timid players who would often give you a good buying opportunity even if the flop totally misses you (and hopefully them). | ||
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| Re: Question about pre-flop hands, KJo, 12. Nov 2003 17:08 | ||
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| 43s is complete garbage in a NL game, no matter how many limpers. What do you hope to flop? Obviously a straight, but the odds of that are distant, and with low cards there's a good chance it would be the wrong end of a straight. Certainly not a flush, 4-high. Since it's NL it's death to draw for anything. I doubt I would play it at any price. By one seat right of the SB I assume you mean on the button? Eli on 12. Nov 2003 14:04 Jojo wrote: > Okay, quick follow up question to that. So, lets say for example's sake, I have 3, 4 > suited one seat right of the small blind..in a 10 man tourney with 3 people behind me that > posted the blind. Is this a solid time to bet a blind or would my money be better off, in > the long run, to hold on to there. > I understand there are always other things to factor in, but just using the above > factors, what do you think? | ||
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| Re: Question about pre-flop hands, Schuster, 12. Nov 2003 18:04 | ||
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| You should check out what Doyle Brunson thinks of this hand. Lee | ||
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| Re: Question about pre-flop hands, Aisthesis, 12. Nov 2003 22:19 | ||
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| Since I don't have the book yet, I'd really like to hear the answer to that question! Or are you going to make me wait?? :) I'd definitely feel a lot better with 98s, or for that matter even 54s, which at least gives you full draw possibilities for the straight. But as follow-up question for you guys: Is 98s generally better or worse in NL than KJo (no pun intended)? How about KTo? | ||
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| Re: Question about pre-flop hands, KJo, 12. Nov 2003 23:01 | ||
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| In NL, I'd take big cards over 98s, even if the big cards are weak. Since you're more likely to be heads up, kickers aren't as much of an issue as they are in a limit game, so pairing your king can be fairly strong, and 98s is more of a volume hand anyway. The other thing about a hand like KJo in NL is you have two legitimate opportunities at making top pair. It still isn't much of a calling hand, but it's a decent one to come in with a raise with if you're the first one in. 98s is trickier. Eli on 12. Nov 2003 22:19 Aisthesis wrote: > Since I don't have the book yet, I'd really like to hear the answer to that question! Or are you going to > make me wait?? :) > I'd definitely feel a lot better with 98s, or for that matter even 54s, which at least gives you full > draw possibilities for the straight. > But as follow-up question for you guys: Is 98s generally better or worse in NL than KJo (no pun > intended)? How about KTo? | ||
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| Re: Question about pre-flop hands, Schuster, 13. Nov 2003 00:21 | ||
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| Assuming a full game, most of the time I'd rather have the 98s than KJo. With KJo, you're either going to lose a large pot or win a small pot. With 98s, the flop is going to be pretty easy to play. KJo is very tricky when you flop only a pair. I rarely even play KJo in a full no limit game. Lee | ||
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| Re: Question about pre-flop hands, shorn, 13. Nov 2003 06:26 | ||
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| I agree with KJ here. With a hand like 98s you could conceivable flop a 9 and win the pot without improving any more. There is no way with a 43s that you will ever be able to win a 1 pair pot. This is the biggest reason why you shouldn't play it. The ONLY time I would ever play this hand in a NL game is in two spots: OTB with more than 5 limpers in front of me and VERY VERY passive blinds; or, in the SB with more than 5 limpers where all I have to do is complete and a VERY passive BB. Otherwise, I will save my $$ for a much better hand. | ||
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| Re: Question about pre-flop hands, Aisthesis, 13. Nov 2003 12:04 | ||
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| Agree with you on button, but I think I'd fold it about every time in SB since you'r going to be out of position in every subsequent round. Aside from your valid point on pairing up, the suited connectors really only start to get at all interesting with 54s because at least that one gives you a full range of straight draws. | ||
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| Re: Question about pre-flop hands, KJo, 12. Nov 2003 13:51 | ||
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| First of all I would say don't have any specific system for which hands to play, and secondly I would say avoid being an "any ace, any king (even if they're suited)" player LIKE THE PLAGUE. Those Ax and Kx hands can get you into some mighty trouble, especially in NL. You should limit the hands you consider playing, not expand. Eli on 11. Nov 2003 21:11 Jojo wrote: > I generally play sng and pl and nl low limit tables. I do well, but I tend to > be on the safe side with my pre-flop calls and I feel I play well as soon as I > see the flop. I tend to play any pocket pair, A suited, K suited, and any combo > between 10 through A. I will generally fold hands such as J 9 suited, Q 8 > suited, A 9 os and such. > > My question is...Am i just giving away money in the long run by not playing > these hands? Should I start trying to play these hands until I am > comfortable? > > Thank you in advance! | ||
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