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Server Time: 2/13/2012 4:11:25 PM PACIFIC |
 Whats up with UB?, Mustlose, 11. Nov 2003 20:51 | ||
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| I have been playing at Ultimate Bet for a few months, and I have been winning, but I cant ignore the bad beats. I mean they are just insane beats running straights, flushes, ace/9 beating ace/ace with running nines at the turn and river. I win most of the time, but I cant ignore the bad beats I see, its just too insane. Is there something wrong with UB? Please don't tell me "that's poker" cause it is not. The beats I am witnessing at ultimate bet are just too crazy to fall under the category of "that's poker", and most of all they are happening too much too often, a day doesn't go by where I don't see at least 20 of them at one table, not just bad beats, insane miracles. Has anyone else noticed this? | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, Schuster, 11. Nov 2003 21:26 | ||
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| That's poker. No, it really is. Lee | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, Mustlose, 11. Nov 2003 21:32 | ||
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| I have gone to play at casinos and have played with friends and those type of beats do happen, but rarely are they seen. Have you played at Ultimate Bet? They are not rarely seen, they are common, people actually call it "the ub special". Is that really poker? Because it sounds more like blackjack, I mean what's the point of playing good hands if those bad beats are extremely common at UB. | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, noiseboy, 17. Nov 2003 15:27 | ||
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| thing is, you're seeing 2-3 times as many hands, so you see 2-3 times more miracle draws. | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, ReMMy, 11. Nov 2003 21:30 | ||
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| Welcome to no foldem holdem. My money says you're playing low limit! | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, Mustlose, 11. Nov 2003 21:36 | ||
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| Not quite I play at sit and go's no limit holdem, I win most of the time(I started with 400 ultimate points, I now have 5400), but the bad beats are truly out of control. I could give you hundreds of examples, and I have only been playing for a few months at UB. At the casino I see bad beats of course "that's poker", but the horrible beats I see at UB are rare anywhere, but at UB. The type of beats people remember as their worst beats ever are common place at UB, I see about 20 and I play in 3 sit and go's a day. A sit and go is a mini tourney of only 10 people. | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, Kymmer, 11. Nov 2003 21:54 | ||
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| I play at UB frequently and have seen the same thing. But I've also seen it at other sites I've played, as well. I think it's due more to the sheer volumes of people playing and the majority of them are just poor players, so you are more likely to sit down at a table where more players will chase weak draws whenever they have a face, ace, unsuited connectors, any suited cards, or just plain trash. I've moved up a level or two to the 1/2 tables and the bad play is thinned out some - but not by much. I'm hoping to keep building the bankroll and keep moving up. It's a bonus when you can sit down at a table with a majority of good players and a only couple of fish who will feed your bankroll rather than bleed your bankroll. http://members.cox.net/keblog | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, Boftx, 12. Nov 2003 11:50 | ||
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| I'm gonna ruin your whole day for you. First, it really is just poker. But what will mess with your mind even more is this: UB does not pre-shuffle the deck, each card is selected *at the time it is dealt*. This means that ANY change in timing, i.e. how long you think, or how many players are in a hand, will have an effect on the next card dealt. So, if you fold 88 and the flop comes 88x, you may console yourself with the thought "It would have been different if I stayed". As for the bad beats, if you had thought faster or longer it probably wouldn't have happened. You can verify this by reading the UB security page. Jim | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, KevinK, 12. Nov 2003 13:02 | ||
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| That would make sense if they don't shuffle. I've had many times where the exact pocket that won the previous hand get dealt to me the next one. I'm not blaming UB for my bad beats but I feel as well they occur there more than any site I've played. | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, Mustlose, 12. Nov 2003 17:43 | ||
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| You know I have noticed that as well, the pocket pair thing you mentioned also happens all the time, its weird cause its supposed to be random, I mean you see it once in a while in a casino, but at UB it happens quite a bit like today for example, pocket aces were dealt 3 times in the a span of I would say about 20 hands. I have seen this happen with 9's and Aces the day before yesterday as well. The lesson here is if a guy just won with aces don't be surprised if the guy next to him has the bullets. And also you are never done in UB, there is always a chance for a running who knows what to save you. I wonder if UB could change the way they shuffle, cause(I never thought I would say this about poker) its just too random. Poker is about miracles but if they constantly happen it takes away all skill from the game. I guess playing online will never be like playing in real life, but since the casino is 30 minutes away from my house I have no choice. On the positive I NEVER go on tilt anymore UB has made it so that I no longer am surprised by anything that happens. | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, Andrew W, 17. Nov 2003 16:42 | ||
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| I guess playing > online will never be like playing in real life, but since the casino is 30 minutes away from my > house I have no choice. Dude, what are you talking about? You live 30 minutes from a casino? Then you're ahead of the vast majority of the rest of us. I'm in the middle of a large state with nothing. It's an overnight trip to consider any legal gaming venue. Heck, where I live, I travel 20 minutes to get to a decent grocery store. Just had to do a double take on that "no choice with a casino 30 minutes drive away" thing. PS - I have often noted that winning-hand-gets-dealt-to-me-next-hand thing. Weird. | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, Denver, 12. Nov 2003 12:06 | ||
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| I don't know how people can make this claim when there selective memory isn't recalling that of all the winning hands throughout the course of a SnG most of them were a statistical favorite. That's like saying "It seems like an awful lot of people have won the lottery". Hundreds, if not thousands of people have won the lottery when the odds are in the millions to 1 range. I don't think a 20-1 favorite losing is a statistical 'miracle'. | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, Robert M, 12. Nov 2003 15:16 | ||
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| UB bad beat formula vs B&M B&M: 35 Hands per hour * 50% see flop * 2 players at showdown = xBadbeats seen per hour Online: 80 Hands per hour * 80% see flop * 3 or more players at showdown = xBad beats per hour Please forgive me for my crude math skills hehe | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, ReMMy, 12. Nov 2003 19:11 | ||
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| I just posted this in another thread but since this thread was part of the reason for writing it, I'll throw it in here too... I've never posted a single "bad beat" story. I almost did once before remembering that in reality there is no such thing. There are 52 cards in a deck, those 52 cards are the same EVERY single time. If you hold a pocket pair, there are exactly 2 cards in the remaining 50 that can make you a set. If you flop an open ended straight there are 8 cards that can make your hand. Got a flush draw?you've got 9 outs... Here's the beauty of it, every single time someone calls your bet or raise, they are getting certain odds as an underdog, they are "paying" to see that next card. If the odds are in your favor, its a bad play in the long run. FORTUNATELY NOT UNFORTUNATELY, bad plays can pay off in the SHORT run. Let's think about this. If you won EVERY hand that you were a statistical favorite in, then all the fish would buy in once or twice and then stop playing. Eventually you would be the worst player, playing against people who always ended up a statistical favorite in most situations, and you would lose all your money. Poker would cease to exist. I have played at UltimateBet, TruePoker, Pokerstars, Paradise Poker, and PartyPoker among others. And I've seen every single bad beat story on every site. I've seen aces dealt in 2 or 3 consecutive hands on all of these sites. I've played hundreds of thousands of hands at a variety of levels and game types, and guess what, I have not lost money at any of the sites. I'm not saying I'm some sort of super poker player or that I've won tons of money on all these sites, but I do stick to a solid strategy and refuse to "tilt". If I had a dollar for every time I've been drawn out by someone who had NO business being in the hand, let alone calling bets to the river, I'd have more money than I've won in my 5 years of playing poker... So here are my 2 points: ONLINE POKER IS NOT RIGGED THERE ARE NO BAD BEATS, ONLY BAD PLAYS AND PLAYERS!!! | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, LKP, 12. Nov 2003 19:36 | ||
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| You know, I used to kinda suspect some stuff like that too. It was almost like PartyPoker (where I play) was giving people the hands they needed so they would continue to play badly and feed the rake. Until I played a home game the other night with some friends of mine. I lost on the river a bunch, I won on the river a bunch. I had a K 6 and the flop was AQJ. I semibluffed my draw with a sizeable bet and caught a ten on the turn. We also had pocket rockets dealt out several times within a short period. I got the EXACT same pocket cards two hands in a row (too bad it wasn't a great hand). I beat out a guy who had pocket aces when a heart came out on 4th street and the river, giving me the runner-runner nut flush. Another time I was bluffing, holding a K 10 when the board was Q 7 5. Got called, fired off another bullet. Got called again, the river came up a K, giving me top pair which beat the caller who had a pair of queens. All I'm saying is that, as crazy as it is, that really is poker. The only thing I have been suspicious of is the fact that I have gone on periods of intensely lucky draws in my favor right after I deposited money or started playing a different type of game on Party. But that's from my personal experience of always drawing what I needed, rather than getting drawn out by one of the other 7 people who saw the flop. | ||
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| Re: Whats up with UB?, ADAM THE EXPERT, 22. Nov 2003 12:32 | ||
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| WELL, THIS IS AN ISSUE, THAT ADAM THE EXPERT HAS ALSO NOTICED, BUT NOT ON ULTIMATE BET. I WILL SAY THAT THE PLAYERS ON THIS SITE, ARE BY FAR THE MOST HOPELESS I'VE EVER SEEN, SO YOU CAN EXPECT A LOT OF BAD BEATS. NOW, MOST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD, ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO KNOW, WHAT IS, AND IS NOT POSSIBLE. ADAM THE EXPERT OF COURSE, IS. I DON'T HAVE "WILD THEORIES" OR "CRAZY SUPERSTITIONS" I HAVE BEEN AROUND, FOR A LOOOOOONG TIME, AND HAVE DEALT JUST ABOUT EVERY BAD BEAT THERE IS. BUT, YOU'RE CORRECT, WHEN IT GETS TO A POINT, YOU START TO THINK. "GUY HAVE A BUDDY THAT CAN ALTER THE ALGORYTHMS" ? I DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT COMPUTERS, HAVING SPENT MY LIFE, BECOMING A POKER EXPERT. BUT, IT SURE SEEMS TO ME, AS THOUGH SOME SITES, I WON'T SAY WHICH, ARE WITHOUT A DOUBT, RIGGING SOME HANDS, TO FAVOR THE HOPELESS IDIOT PLAYER. EVERYONE JUST ASSUMES THAT THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE, AND THAT A MAJOR SITE WOULD NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS DO IT, IF IT WERE. BUT, THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AT STAKE HERE, AND IF YOU WERE A HOPELESS IDIOT (WHICH GENERATES GAMES) WHERE WOULD YOU PLAY, THE SITE WHERE YOU WIN ONCE IN A WHILE, OR THE ONE WHERE YOU NEVER NEVER WIN. YEARS AGO, JUST AFTER MY WIFE DIED, I BRIEFLY WORKED AS A HOUSE SHILL (SOMEONE WHO PLAYS WITH HOUSE MONEY, TO START AND HELP KEEP THE GAMES GOING) THE OLD INSTRUCTOR SHILL, TOLD ME, THAT IF I AM NICELY AHEAD, AND A PLAYER WHO'S BEEN LOSING IS ALL IN A THE POT IS SMALL, 15 DOLLARS OF LESS, THAT I SHOULD JUST THROW MY WINNING HAND AWAY, AND LET HIM HAVE IT, THUS KEEPING A PLAYER IN THE GAME, AND LET HIM WIN ONE POT, SO HE'LL BE HAPPY. NOW, WE HAD A RIGHT TO DO THAT, WE WERE NOT CHEATING, JUST TRYING TO KEEP THE GAME GOING, UNTIL MORE PLAYERS ARRIVED. BUT, IF YOU COULD MAKE A HALF BILLION A YEAR, BY GETTING ALL THE LIVE ONES TO PLAY ON YOUR SITE, AND YOU KNEW YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH IT, DO YOU THINKG THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY, WOULD BE SUFFICIENT, FOR SOMETHING SO DIABOLICAL?? ADAM THE EXPERT DOES COUPLE WEEKS AGO, I SAW THIS PLAYER, WHO WAS RUDE, AND TALKING BAD ABOUT THE SITE, LOSE TWO POTS, IN A NO LIMIT TOURNAMENT, WHERE THE ODDS AGAINST HIS OPPONENT IN EACH CASE, WERE 356 TO 1 !! i HAVE SEEN PEOPLE CALL BETS, AND RAISES, WITH ONLY A 1/45 CHANCE OF WINNING. I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE STUPIDLY BET ALL THEIR CHIPS, WITH ONLY A 15-1 KICKER SPIKE AND IT'S HAPPENING WAY, WAY TOO OFTEN, TO JUST WRITE OFF AS "THAT'S POKER" I PICTURE IN MY MIND, A BIG CONTROL ROOM, WHERE 50 PEOPLE ARE SITTING, WITH A SUPERVISOR, OK, THIS GUY PLAYS A LOT, AND NEVER WINS, GIVE HIM A JACK AND TEN, HE NEEDS TO WIN. THIS GUY IS BEING A JERK, LAY A 356 TO ONE BAD BEAT ON HIM. "HEY WOULDN'T IT BE EXCITING, IF SOMEONE LOST QUADS OVER QUADS" OK, SOME BEFORE I SAW THE DOUBLE 356-1 BEATS, TO THE SAME PLAYER, I WAS NOT THAT FIRM IN MY BELIEF. BUT JUST LIKE THE ROBERT DINERO CHARACTER SAID IN CASINO, REFERRING TO THE ODDS OF THREE SLOT JACKPOTS BEING HIT, WITHOUT BEING RIGGED, "THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN, IT CANNOT HAPPEN" ALSO, CERTAIN SITES, IN THE TOURNAMENTS, ARE RIGGING THE PROGRAMMING, TO GIVE POCKET ACES TO PLAYERS, AT AROUND 2.5 TO 3 TIMES THE "NORMAL" FREQUENCY. HOW FUN IT IS TO PLAY THERE!! I WAS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ARGUEMENT ON THIS SUBJECTWITH MY BROTHER, WHEN, LOW AND BEHOLD, BACK TO BACK POCKET ACES !!!!! SURE, I'VE SEEN IT, I'VE HAD IT. BUT NOT LIKE THIS!! SITES, FEEL FREE TO WRITE ME, AND CONVINCE ME WHY THIS CAN'T HAPPEN BUT I KNOW YOU'RE DOING IT, AND I WANT IT TO STOP. NOTE: THE ABOVE WAS WRITTEN, FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY, TO SHOW HOW PARINOID THINKING, CAN DRAG YOU DOWN. | ||
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