|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 2/13/2012 6:14:28 PM PACIFIC |
 A good fold? What would you do?, mkpoker, 11. Nov 2003 18:43 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I've been accused (politely) of playing weak-tight, so I wanted to post up this hand to get some feedback on my play. I think my fold was good here, even in retrospect...but I'd welcome others' thoughts. We're playing 3/6 online at a table that's much tighter than usual for party. I'm used to 75%ish hands reaching showdown--I'd guess we were under 50%. From the cutoff, I'm dealt 9To. 4 limpers to me. 9To is marginal, but I think worth a call in this situation. I limp. Button limps, SB folds. BB checks. Flop comes KdQd9s (I have no diamonds), giving me bottom pair and a gutshot draw. It's checked to me. I check, hoping for a free card. The button bets, two calls, three folds. I fold. So here are the questions: Would you have bet if checked to on the flop (I checked)? Would you have called the button's bet with bottom pair (I mucked)? The pot was laying more than 10:1 on that flop call (good enough for a gutshot draw), but I folded because even if a J came for my straight, it could be trouble. The Jd could make a flush and ANY jack could give me the "idiot end" of a losing straight to AT. Bottom line: I figured that I was probably behind and was effectively drawing to a 2-outer. Even if I was ahead (which was possible), my hand could be overtaken in so many ways, it seemed prudent to get out. With 1 or 2 opponents, I might have tried to bully my way through, given that the table was a bit tight. But with 3 players already calling a flop bet, I figured this hand would make it to showdown somehow. Incidentally, the turn came 4h and the river Ad. The winner made a flush. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: A good fold? What would you do?, Schuster, 11. Nov 2003 20:02 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hey mk, first off I don't like the preflop call, but it could go either way. I wouldn't play this hand except on the button, but that might just be be. After that, this is an easy fold. Even hitting one of your outs could give someone a flush, or a higher straight. Hitting a ten is obviously no good. And even if hitting a jack is good, you might split the pot with another ten. This would have to be a heck of a big pot to make a call in this spot, good fold mk. Lee | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: A good fold? What would you do?, WilliamS, 12. Nov 2003 07:50 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Lee, Why wouldn't you play 910 offsuit with 4 limpers in front from the cutoff. With no raises and position you are likely to see a flop with 7 players in it and a hand that is pretty well defined. Meaning, if you don't flop 2 pair, trips, a straight, or an open-ender it is easy to get away from. I may be way off base, but I think hands like these are gravy in loose passive games (i.e. ones that have 4limpers in by the cutoff). Granted, if it was suited it would be better, but I think you risk a small amount for a chance at a HUGE pot with this type of hand. I would have played it exactly as the original poster played it. Will | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: A good fold? What would you do?, Schuster, 12. Nov 2003 12:04 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| It's just such a weak holding... even if I hit 2 pair with it, there's a lot of straight draws to big cards, and even if those don't come up, 2 medium pairs isn't always good enough to win. An overcard pairing or a running pair on 4th and 5th kills your hand, and even the trips might not be good. I wouldn't feel good about my hand with T9o unless I held the nut straight, so I'd rather just not get involved. Maybe it's personal taste though. Lee | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: A good fold? What would you do?, shorn, 12. Nov 2003 07:41 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Definite fold. If you can't count all of your odds as clean, then they aren't really outs. With that many players in, you can't ever be sure that your hand is good even if you do hit the miracle. Your reverse implied odds suck on this hand and therefore it is a fold. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: A good fold? What would you do?, Barry T, 12. Nov 2003 11:26 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hi, MK: If you were not last to act, it wouldhave been a fine fold. You cannot stand any sort of raise. But because you were last to act, and because you have position on the field (the reason you called pre-flop with that, umm, marginal holding) you should consider calling.. You need to hit your hand (9 or J) but you also get the advantage of seeing the action coming into you. For example, if you hit a Jd, you can still easily get away from your hand. Even if you hit a J, if there is a bet and raise, you can still dump. And you can easily get rivered. There is not a lot of equity in it, but I would take one off if I was last and had position after the turn. BarryT | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: A good fold? What would you do?, shorn, 12. Nov 2003 12:07 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Good points Barry. A lesson to us all that it is always better to act last no matter what hand you hold. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: A good fold? What would you do?, mroban, 13. Nov 2003 07:12 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| My thoughts below > > From the cutoff, I'm dealt 9To. 4 limpers to me. 9To is marginal, but I think > worth a call in this situation. I limp. Button limps, SB folds. BB checks. I like to call here too, I think its worth a call with low expectations. If I dont flop two pair or top pair with an open ended straight though I am looking to fold with any action on the flop. > > Flop comes KdQd9s (I have no diamonds), giving me bottom pair and a gutshot > draw. It's checked to me. > > I check, hoping for a free card. The button bets, two calls, three folds. I > fold. I check and fold too with this flop. Did the button fold? Anyway, the KQ on the flop with all those limpers pretty much guarantees there is at least one player with a pair of KK, another with QQ and probably a flush draw and better straight draw. You pretty much only have two outs here reasonably as hitting your J might make a better straight for someone else. Personally (and I know others will disagree) you either bet here hoping to win the small pot or check and fold. I certainly would not call a bet here. A bet would be fine of course, but I don't like doing that against that kind of board with all those limpers. Just my opinion. I would have played it exactly how you did. Not an aggressive play, but I think more profitable in the long run. > The pot was laying more than 10:1 on that flop call (good enough for a gutshot > draw), but I folded because even if a J came for my straight, it could be > trouble. The Jd could make a flush and ANY jack could give me the "idiot end" > of a losing straight to AT. exactly my point above. I play this exactly as you did and fold. With no flush draw on board and no possibility of a better straight, it probably was worth a bet. In any unraised pot there are just too many possibilities out there and too many ways to lose a big pot. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network | Find Vancouver Businesses |
|