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Server Time: 2/13/2012 5:26:56 PM PACIFIC |
 Starting Bankroll, danimales, 11. Nov 2003 09:36 | ||
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| I'm thinking of trying a higher limit hold 'em game in the near future, but I am unsure on what a good starting bankroll should be before sitting down. One rule of thumb I heard (sorry, I can't remember where I heard this) is that you should have 100 times the minimum bet. For example, at a $2/4 or $2/5 table you should start with at least $200. Or, playing a $10/20 game you should bring $1000 to start with. To me, in some instances that sounds low, and other circumstances a little high (i.e. the low limit game). Obviously, you should never bring more than you are willing to lose. Does anybody have any good advice on this, or what kind of bankroll works best for you? Thanks. | ||
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| Re: Starting Bankroll, Waddy, 11. Nov 2003 10:04 | ||
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| This is advice from Howard Lederer and Annie Duke The 30-bet Rule When I first started playing poker, my big brother gave me a great piece of advice. He told me to never lose more than 30 big bets in a game, give or take. That means I shouldn't lose more than $180 in a $3-$6 game, $600 in a $10-$20 game and so on. What a great piece of advice that was, one of the most important he ever gave me for money management, so I'm going to pass it on to you here: "Don't ever go off for more than 30 big bets in a poker game!" When you are first starting out as a poker player it is very difficult to judge whether you are a good player or a bad one. Until you have a lot of experience and table hours under your belt there is no way for you to effectively judge your skill level. More importantly, until you have played a lot of hours it is difficult for you to judge your level of skill compared to the other players at your table. One thing the 30 bet rule does for you is limit your losses in games where you might be the sucker. Until you are able to accurately judge how you play compared to others in your game, loss limiting with the 30 bet rule effectively stops you from dumping off large sums of money in games you may not be able to beat. This is always a good strategy for bankroll health! Even if you have enough experience and table hours to judge whether you are good, better or worse than the game you have chosen, loss limiting is still a good strategy. When we are losing it is difficult to accurately judge exactly how much losing affects our play. Even great champions will often be in a game they could generally beat soundly but because they are losing. They become a dog to the game and don't realize it. When you are losing, your table image erodes and table image is very important to how much money you can take out of a game. Other players are also more likely to play hands strong and fast against you, bluff at you and generally will be more likely to run you down which will take away your ability to bluff. All of this really eats into your earnings. Not only will your table image erode when you are losing but your skills will erode as well! As you go into the mindset of wanting to reduce your loss on losing hands you will play hands softer than called for, back off hands, and won't raise when appropriate. And we all know that passive play is a recipe for losing play. Losing generally makes us all more passive. Yet, there are those of us who steam... we chase hands we would normally fold or play hands we would normally never get involved in and the like. Steaming is another recipe for losing. By limiting your losses to 30 big bets, you are effectively minimizing the time you spend playing with a poor table image, playing passively, or steaming at the table and maximizing the amount of time you spend playing your A-game. If you don't go beyond 30 big bets, you won't dump off large sums when you are playing poorly or are in a bad game and might not be able to soundly assess your circumstances. Loss limiting acts as an objective stop-gap. So always listen to big brother... keep your losses small! | ||
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| Re: Starting Bankroll, noiseboy, 11. Nov 2003 10:35 | ||
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| TJ Cloutier has some advice along the same lines, due to the fact that if you get buried in Limit poker, it takes forever to dig yourself out. He says basically you shouldn't lose more in one session than you can reasonably expect to win back in your next session. Especially when you are running bad, it may not matter if you are the best player at the table, sometimes it's just not your day and you are going to lose no matter what. Since losing is somewhat detrimental to your table image, even if you are able to keep your A-game when losing, it still might be beneficial to get up from a good game. Oftentimes, when the game is really good, is when you have the highest variance and take the most bad beats. So sometimes it's just better to leave down a little than to go down for a ton of bets and have to try to dig yourself out for the next ten sessions. I must admit it's really hard to leave a good game down, I have violated this rule and on occasion made some amazing comebacks, but at other times got myself deep in the hole. There is also the opposite school of thought on this which is, it's just one long poker game from now until you die, so you shouldn't care about short term results as long as the game is good and you are one of the best players at the table. In practice, however, losing affects almost everyone to some degree, and it tends to make your opponents better when they play you. They see that you are running bad, and they call your bluffs and become more aggressive when in a pot with you. | ||
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| Re: Starting Bankroll, grant pittman, 11. Nov 2003 11:23 | ||
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| Danimales it sounds like you may be talking about two different things here. A bankroll usually refers to an allocated money source for poker only....not a buy-in for a session of poker. I think 100 small bets is a hefty buy-in for a session but is a mighty small bankroll. Mason Malmuth has done work on bankroll requirements at many different limits for almost every poker game. As a basic guideline, 300 big bets seems to be a standard but it will depend on your style of play as well as your opponents. Good luck!!! GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: Starting Bankroll, danimales, 11. Nov 2003 11:38 | ||
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| Grant, I see what you are saying. I tend to use bankroll and buy-in interchangably. I consider whatever I buy in for my bankroll, because if I lose it, than that's it for that day. So yes, technically my question does pertain to the "buy-in." What is a general rule of thumb for a "buy in" based on the limit? (Notice not the minimum buy in). | ||
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| Re: Starting Bankroll, Mark Barnett II, 12. Nov 2003 09:30 | ||
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| if your playing bet and 3 raises each of 4 rounds thats 12 possible BB per hand *rarely happens* so i usually double that to 25-30BB then add on enough *usually 10BB more* to cover myself the idea is you never want to have the amount of money in front of you negatively determine how you play a hand lose half of the 25 BB rethink the table *do you still think you can make money here?* get down to last 10% of the original buyin *the 25-30 not counting the extra* and rethink one last time, but this time be sure that your not being walked over otherwise just leave and think of it as winnings *money saved spends as well as money earned* Rule #1 of Poker Circumstances alter cases Rule #2 NEVER forget rule #1 | ||
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| Re: Starting Bankroll? great link!!, timmer, 12. Nov 2003 13:19 | ||
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| you night want to check out this link: http://www.poker1.com/newsmanager/templates/mculib_articles.asp?articleid=129&zoneid=6 | ||
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