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Server Time: 2/13/2012 6:04:58 PM PACIFIC |
 Overplay TT?, epper, 11. Nov 2003 03:51 | ||
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| 20+2 nl on Pstars w/ 673 and we are down to 228. I have not had many hands to play and am have 1100. Blinds are 100/200. I am in small blind and get TT. Under the gun limps and everyone else folds. I decide that all in is better than a 800 bet (probably should have bet 800). Somehow I bet 1000 instead of 1100. BB folds and limper reraises. I call. He has QQ. Garbage board and I am out. 1. Should I have just raised to 800 thereby giving myself an out if reraised? However, I was pot committed with this hand. 2. Did I make the right play and am I just frustrated with the result? Thanx | ||
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| Re: Overplay TT?, SmellsLikeVictory, 11. Nov 2003 07:26 | ||
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| You played it fine. Whenever you consider a raise as short stack and realize that a reraise will have you pot committed it's better to just go all-in (or fold) and be done with it. Limper was lucky there was a raiser behind him as I think he misplayed his hand and needed to raise with the ladies. But he sucked you in and you got trapped. | ||
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| Re: Overplay TT?, epper, 11. Nov 2003 13:55 | ||
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| Thanx -- I agree. If he raises early, I have a tough decision re call. Not worth taking a chance with an under the gun raise w/ TT. His raise would have looked like JJ, QQ, KK, or AK. I would not mind playing against AK though. If I had a AT and just called his bet, he would have gotten killed. I would raise in his situation b/c why take a chance of a lot of limpers with a high pair. A or K and you are dead when a good raise gets out a lot of the As and Ks. I was frustrated that I could not get anything going, but I think that I have to chalk it up to a night of no good cards and losing to a better hand. Thanx. | ||
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| Re: Overplay TT?, beigs, 11. Nov 2003 14:38 | ||
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| I would raise in his situation b/c why take a chance of > a lot of limpers with a high pair. A or K and you are dead when a good raise gets out a > lot of the As and Ks. What size raise would you recommend to get out As & Ks? I'm still learning No Limit and unsure of how to get players to do what I want. Thanks, beigs | ||
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| Re: Overplay TT?, epper, 12. Nov 2003 06:51 | ||
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| Experts say to raise 3-5 times the blinds. Other experts say to raise an amount greater than the total pot. I vary between 3 and 4 times the big blind. So, the bb is 100, i would bring it in for 300 or 400. the larger raise tends to get more people out. | ||
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| Re: Overplay TT?, rdale, 12. Nov 2003 07:39 | ||
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| I flip on this, first to open or one other limper I raise 3-5x the big blind usually closer to 4x the big blind, several limpers and I add up what is going in the pot and bet the pot to push people out. I rarely over bet the pot especially preflop unless I'm going to go all in, and the only time I really like to go all in is as a short stack with one other player and am holding a pocket pair. So over all you played this about as well as you could, but ran into a disguised better hand. Best of luck next time with this play. | ||
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| Re: Overplay TT?, shorn, 11. Nov 2003 07:53 | ||
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| I think I might have just called with TT. Assuming his stack is bigger than yours or at least a medium stack, there is no way you will get him to lay down his hand even with an all-in. So, it might be better to just complete and hope to flop a set or overpair and then put the decision to him. In this case it wouldn't have mattered, but you most likely would have checked the flop to him and folded when you dodn't hit. In most cases, with a short stack, it is best to go all-in on a hand like this. However, I think in this specific case, a call would have been better since it only costed you 9% of your stack and you still had 5 BB's left after that. I am more comfortable making the big move with a medium strength hand from late position than in one of the blinds. | ||
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| Re: Overplay TT?, epper, 11. Nov 2003 13:52 | ||
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| Shorn --always appreciate your thought and comments. However, I think that I disagree with you here. To me, the early limper indicated a AQ or KQ or something along those lines, not a high picture pair. So, given my misread, I had to play it the way I did. Either I pick up $400 or I get a call when I am ahead and might double up. On the flip side, your view is interesting in that a simple call would have kept me in for a long while with 1000. Don't think that I could call here though. Any more thoughts. As always, I love the dialogue. | ||
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| Re: Overplay TT?, shorn, 12. Nov 2003 07:32 | ||
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| We can agree to disagree. I don't think most good palyers would limp with AQ in EP...that's a raise or fold. KQ is more debatable, but since this is a tourny, then I find it less likely (from my experience). So, an early limp to me (unless I know this player to be tricky or an idiot) says small pair, suited connectors or maybe a big pair. Since I don't have a tom of information and my hand isn't really strong enough to face an all-in call by the other player, I would still call and see what happens. Again, the real key for me here is that you didn't have the opportunity to be the first aggressor which in my mind is the best spot to be in a NL tourny. And, since you can call and really not damage your stack, that would be the preferable play to me. | ||
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| Re: Overplay TT?, epper, 12. Nov 2003 11:56 | ||
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| Good point about the limper being small pair, suited connector, or disguised pair. To be honest, the previous hands had shown that a large bet from a late player or small blind would have all limpers fold. In any event, I would not even play AQ in early position let alone raise with it. Maybe at the final table when trying to make a move, but not in the middle of a tourney -- too much to lose (in fact, I layed it AQ down twice earlier). Your suggestion of calling is not one that I really considered (or have in the bag), and I really need to consider that type of play with a limper. My intuition leans towards a raise as the aggessor and to get people out, but your view and the play in this case indicates that I need to be careful of the disguised hand even though I would never play it the way he did. Close situation and thanks a lot for your view -- always well thought out. EP | ||
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| Re: Overplay TT?, Aisthesis, 13. Nov 2003 10:30 | ||
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| I like the all-in myself. I think you definitely want to bet enough to get BB out of play under normal circumstances, and for that you're going to have to go with at least the 800. The only advantage I see to the 800 over the all-in is that it might be slighly more tempting for your opponent to call it with a weakish hand. But then you're going to have to go all-in on the flop regardless of what the board shows--you'll just have 300 left, and you can't bank on getting anything better than TT with just 1 round of blinds left in your bankroll. The QQ limper is just a bad break, I think. | ||
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