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Server Time: 11/23/2008 4:08:23 AM PACIFIC |
 I am very ashamed, socal_1111, 8. Nov 2003 01:19 | ||
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| Before I start, at the end of this post, I KNOW you will all think I am full of sh## and I am ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!! I agree with you... For the last two weeks, I have been doing a little experiment and am extremely shocked with the results... and now also very confused. Before my experiment, I studied this forum every day, read many books, and practiced (online) minimum 3 hrs, 7 days a wk. I definitely understand tight / aggressive, w/ the occasional mixing of styles and hands played produces the most $$$. After a period of time of playing this way and watching the "hacks" chase their 8,3o to the river and beating my AA, etc. I decided... enough!!! Everything I have read here and in books say I need those players at my table to fill my pockets, but at the low limits, it just aint so!! My experiment: I took $200 to the $2/4 table with the idea it would be gone within an hour... I played EVERY HAND the exact opposite of everything I know how I should (at first to prove to myself that those chasers really do suck), but after awhile I couldn't believe what was happening. I limped w/ AA, KK, QQ... raised with junk... played all junk, mucked the "premiums" (again, to prove to myself that I would not win with that strategy like everyone has said). Well, after the first day, 4 hrs, I was up $25... Playing all trash... There was no way that could continue the next day... 14 days in a row, 4 hour sessions, playing junk against the other idiots... I am up $330... Started with $200, now have $500 check being sent to me. I KNOW... BULLSH**, right? I DEFINITELY understand this cannot work against the higher limits, but what do I do?? I remember reading a post a couple months ago here, saying that Phil H. loses at the $2/4 at UB but cleans up at the NL. For you guys who are going to tell me I suck, etc... I agree with you. I hate playing this way, but online seems to pay off at the river at LL. Many of you pros have told me that LL can definitely be beat mathimatically... please go to pokerroom and let me watch you do this. Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic. Let me know what time I can watch you beat LL and the chasers. I have a Mac, so I can only play at Pokerroom. I do not want to play this way, because I look forward to moving up limits eventually, but "what-to-do??" | ||
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| Re: I am very ashamed, Roy Cooke, 8. Nov 2003 06:55 | ||
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| Hi One thing that amazed myself is that when I play promotional games at PlanetPoker, I play every hand in 3-6 and below....I beat the game the first three months I did that. That said, it has NOT continued....But you can (And poor players can) go on good runs for a short period of time playing totally incorrect. You need to understand that poker can streak in any direction quite a bit for short periods of time. Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 8. Nov 2003 01:19 social_1111 wrote: > Before I start, at the end of this post, I KNOW you will all think I am full of > sh## and I am ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!! I agree with you... > > For the last two weeks, I have been doing a little experiment and am extremely > shocked with the results... and now also very confused. > > Before my experiment, I studied this forum every day, read many books, and > practiced (online) minimum 3 hrs, 7 days a wk. I definitely understand tight / > aggressive, w/ the occasional mixing of styles and hands played produces the > most $$$. After a period of time of playing this way and watching the "hacks" > chase their 8,3o to the river and beating my AA, etc. I decided... enough!!! > Everything I have read here and in books say I need those players at my table to > fill my pockets, but at the low limits, it just aint so!! > > My experiment: I took $200 to the $2/4 table with the idea it would be gone > within an hour... I played EVERY HAND the exact opposite of everything I know > how I should (at first to prove to myself that those chasers really do suck), > but after awhile I couldn't believe what was happening. > > I limped w/ AA, KK, QQ... raised with junk... played all junk, mucked the > "premiums" (again, to prove to myself that I would not win with that strategy > like everyone has said). Well, after the first day, 4 hrs, I was up $25... > Playing all trash... There was no way that could continue the next day... > > 14 days in a row, 4 hour sessions, playing junk against the other idiots... I > am up $330... Started with $200, now have $500 check being sent to me. I KNOW... > BULLSH**, right? I DEFINITELY understand this cannot work against the higher > limits, but what do I do?? I remember reading a post a couple months ago here, > saying that Phil H. loses at the $2/4 at UB but cleans up at the NL. For you > guys who are going to tell me I suck, etc... I agree with you. I hate playing > this way, but online seems to pay off at the river at LL. > > Many of you pros have told me that LL can definitely be beat mathimatically... > please go to pokerroom and let me watch you do this. Seriously, I'm not being > sarcastic. Let me know what time I can watch you beat LL and the chasers. I have > a Mac, so I can only play at Pokerroom. > > I do not want to play this way, because I look forward to moving up limits > eventually, but "what-to-do??" | ||
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| Re: I am very ashamed, timmer, 8. Nov 2003 10:36 | ||
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| on 8. Nov 2003 06:55 Roy Cooke wrote: Did you tell them that you play every hand preflop ? > Hi > > One thing that amazed myself is that when I play promotional games at PlanetPoker, I > play every hand in 3-6 and below....I beat the game the first three months I did > that. That said, it has NOT continued....But you can (And poor players can) go on > good runs for a short period of time playing totally incorrect. > > You need to understand that poker can streak in any direction quite a bit for short > periods of time. > > Life is Good :-) > Roy Cooke > > on 8. Nov 2003 01:19 social_1111 wrote: > > Before I start, at the end of this post, I KNOW you will all think I am full of > > sh## and I am ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!! I agree with you... > > > > For the last two weeks, I have been doing a little experiment and am extremely > > shocked with the results... and now also very confused. > > > > Before my experiment, I studied this forum every day, read many books, and > > practiced (online) minimum 3 hrs, 7 days a wk. I definitely understand tight / > > aggressive, w/ the occasional mixing of styles and hands played produces the > > most $$$. After a period of time of playing this way and watching the "hacks" > > chase their 8,3o to the river and beating my AA, etc. I decided... enough!!! > > Everything I have read here and in books say I need those players at my table to > > > fill my pockets, but at the low limits, it just aint so!! > > > > My experiment: I took $200 to the $2/4 table with the idea it would be gone > > within an hour... I played EVERY HAND the exact opposite of everything I know > > how I should (at first to prove to myself that those chasers really do suck), > > but after awhile I couldn't believe what was happening. > > > > I limped w/ AA, KK, QQ... raised with junk... played all junk, mucked the > > "premiums" (again, to prove to myself that I would not win with that strategy > > like everyone has said). Well, after the first day, 4 hrs, I was up $25... > > Playing all trash... There was no way that could continue the next day... > > > > 14 days in a row, 4 hour sessions, playing junk against the other idiots... I > > am up $330... Started with $200, now have $500 check being sent to me. I KNOW... > > > BULLSH**, right? I DEFINITELY understand this cannot work against the higher > > limits, but what do I do?? I remember reading a post a couple months ago here, > > saying that Phil H. loses at the $2/4 at UB but cleans up at the NL. For you > > guys who are going to tell me I suck, etc... I agree with you. I hate playing > > this way, but online seems to pay off at the river at LL. > > > > Many of you pros have told me that LL can definitely be beat mathimatically... > > please go to pokerroom and let me watch you do this. Seriously, I'm not being > > sarcastic. Let me know what time I can watch you beat LL and the chasers. I have > > > a Mac, so I can only play at Pokerroom. > > > > I do not want to play this way, because I look forward to moving up limits > > eventually, but "what-to-do??" | ||
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| Re: I am very ashamed, Formless, 8. Nov 2003 09:48 | ||
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| You are a fugitive from the law of averages. Limit Holdem has bent your brain to the point that you think good=bad, bad=good. I am really starting to question why I or anyone else plays limit Texas holdem. OK,. there are still plenty of good reasons to play limit HE given all of the new players. But I don't play limit HE much anymore. The game is designed to be very fluky, that's why bad players like it. Specifically, the Standard Deviation / Earn ratio in terms of BB/hr is just plain silly. The most important concept I have learned in my time at UPF is 'MENTAL TOUGHNESS'. If you plan on playing a lot of limit HE you have to be prepared because the game is designed to river you. And you don't just show up at the table and say you are going to be mentally tough today. You need a foundation, whether it's excercise, experience, meditation, Metallica, whatever works. My personal opinion of no foldem holdem games is you have to play really tight, hope you flop a hand or draw, then hang on for dear life and hope you don't get rivered. Boring as hell. Higher limit games are way more fun, you get to paint outside the lines more. My suggestions: 1. There are lots of good, smart, experienced players who "get" 98% of holdem but have just a few leaks that cost them money. You may be one of those players. Find a poker buddy or an expert to review your play, and offer them money it will be worth it. Specifically, optimize your game to low-limit. 2. Find another game, like Omaha or 7Stud, or NLHE. These games don't feature the schooling effect. | ||
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| Re: I am very ashamed, Mark, 8. Nov 2003 11:13 | ||
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| Socal I also play at pokerroom, anything from 3-6 to 10-20, but mostly 5-10. the 1-2 and 2-4 games can be beaten by tight aggressive play. Maybe you are not tight enough. QTo (and such) from early doesn't play well in those games, and unless your drawing to the nuts, there's not much value in drawing. Good luck Mark | ||
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| Re: I am very ashamed, LJH, 8. Nov 2003 12:23 | ||
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| DEAR SOCAL, WOW, JUST THINK HOW RICH YOU WILL BE IN 10 YEARS PLAYING LIKE THIS, CONGRATS. LJH | ||
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| Re: I am very ashamed, Blade, 8. Nov 2003 15:41 | ||
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| I think you either just on a bad run or you must have some sort of leak that is killing you. I have specifically played LL at Pokerrroom and have been profitable for quite some time now. My starting hand requirements are quite different from those that are recomended in books but you should still be able to beat that game. | ||
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| Another Experiment, Rich P., 9. Nov 2003 01:03 | ||
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| Well, not really, but it's relevant. I tried being a house player at small club for a while and found something really bizzare. I sat in the 2-4 and 3-6 games, mostly holdem, but some mexican poker. What I found was that the swings can be horrendous. The first week or two I could be up $1,000, then the next few weeks I would loose $1000. I'm being inexact, but the point is that the swings can be huge. In an attempt ot make 4 to 6 dollars and hour, one can go through swings of thousands of dollars. Keep this in mind while you continue your experiment. | ||
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| Re: I am very ashamed, shorn, 10. Nov 2003 09:18 | ||
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| I hate to say this, but your experiment proves nothing. What are we talking about in total...20 hours? 50? That is nowhere near enough time to determine what works/doesn't. Play that way for 2000 hours and you should have a good idea (within 1.5 sd's) of what your average win (loss) will be. Suffice it to say, I don't think your bankroll will allow for 2000 hours of stupid play, but have at it if you want. | ||
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