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Server Time: 8/20/2008 3:40:26 AM PACIFIC |
 Starting hands (Sklansky/Malmuth), Aisthesis, 7. Nov 2003 14:03 | ||
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| I recently dug out my old copy of Sklansky/Malmuth (Hold'em for Advanced..., 1993 ed.) and was wondering if their groupings on starting hands still pretty much holds up in the opinion of people here. I also noticed that their strategy is designed for medium limit games, while I play exclusively NL. Is their system still a good point of departure for a NL player? Or should I frequently be questioning some of the principles with this difference in mind? Just as background: At this stage I'd probably classify myself as an intermediate player with no theoretical knowledge except what I've devised for myself, largely on the basis of probability theory and the very helpful practical advice of many players here. At this stage, I'm winning almost always and quite steadily at the $25 buy-in online tables as well as tournaments but floundering pretty badly whenever I try to move up to the $50 buy-in tables. | ||
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| Re: Starting hands (Sklansky/Malmuth), Roy Cooke, 7. Nov 2003 15:53 | ||
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| Hi I don't think you can use those guidelines at ALL for NL. NL is MUCH more feel as far as starting hand requirements. In NL limit your the texture of your opponent and your read of your opponents hand is how you should key on how and what to play. Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 7. Nov 2003 14:03 Aisthesis wrote: > I recently dug out my old copy of Sklansky/Malmuth (Hold'em for Advanced..., > 1993 ed.) and was wondering if their groupings on starting hands still pretty > much holds up in the opinion of people here. > I also noticed that their strategy is designed for medium limit games, while I > play exclusively NL. Is their system still a good point of departure for a NL > player? Or should I frequently be questioning some of the principles with this > difference in mind? > Just as background: At this stage I'd probably classify myself as an > intermediate player with no theoretical knowledge except what I've devised for > myself, largely on the basis of probability theory and the very helpful > practical advice of many players here. At this stage, I'm winning almost always > and quite steadily at the $25 buy-in online tables as well as tournaments but > floundering pretty badly whenever I try to move up to the $50 buy-in tables. | ||
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| Re: Starting hands (Sklansky/Malmuth), Aisthesis, 8. Nov 2003 03:43 | ||
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| Hey, thanks very much for the advice! Do you think their "8 groups" themselves are altogether way off-base for NL or more that their is much more deviation from the "starting criteria" in NL depending on table? Just a few examples, I would have never imagined 65s to be anywhere close to as good a starting hand as A9s. But Sklansky/Malmuth put it in the same group--apparently in part to keep opponents from assuming that you always just play high cards if you're being selective about your hands, as I usually am (you can at least drop 65s like a hot potato when it doesn't hit anything on the flop, and I know that observant players do get a read on me that unless I'm in BB, it's highly unlikely that I hold anything less than T). I would have also considered A9o moderately solid, but for them it's group 8, and A8o is out of the running altogether. There are several other books I know I need to look at as point of departure. One that's on my short list is your "Real Poker II: The Play of the Hands." (Do you think that would be the one of yours that might be the most helpful to me at this stage?) Another is Caro's "Fundamental Secrets of Winning Poker." I figured both of those, in addition to a few others, would probably provide a completely different look at the game and put some big question marks in the right spots. Any additional suggestion would be most appreciated, and thanks again! | ||
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| Re: Starting hands (Sklansky/Malmuth), Roy Cooke, 8. Nov 2003 07:06 | ||
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| If you are going to play NL I would get SuperSystem and study the No-limit section. Starting hands in no-limit is a function of how you can manipulate your opponent into losing all his chips. Have a base guideline for hand selection is the wrong approach. While I appreciate my book on your list, I do not think is the best book for No-Limit. I do think the reading hands parts may add insight to reading hands in No-Limit, but it is mostly for limit Hold'em. Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 8. Nov 2003 03:43 Aisthesis wrote: > Hey, thanks very much for the advice! > Do you think their "8 groups" themselves are altogether way off-base for NL or more that > their is much more deviation from the "starting criteria" in NL depending on table? > Just a few examples, I would have never imagined 65s to be anywhere close to as good a > starting hand as A9s. But Sklansky/Malmuth put it in the same group--apparently in part to > keep opponents from assuming that you always just play high cards if you're being > selective about your hands, as I usually am (you can at least drop 65s like a hot potato > when it doesn't hit anything on the flop, and I know that observant players do get a read > on me that unless I'm in BB, it's highly unlikely that I hold anything less than T). I > would have also considered A9o moderately solid, but for them it's group 8, and A8o is out > of the running altogether. > There are several other books I know I need to look at as point of departure. One that's > on my short list is your "Real Poker II: The Play of the Hands." (Do you think that would > be the one of yours that might be the most helpful to me at this stage?) Another is Caro's > "Fundamental Secrets of Winning Poker." > I figured both of those, in addition to a few others, would probably provide a completely > different look at the game and put some big question marks in the right spots. > Any additional suggestion would be most appreciated, and thanks again! | ||
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| Re: Starting hands (Sklansky/Malmuth), Aisthesis, 8. Nov 2003 12:14 | ||
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| Wow, thanks again! Supersystem was actually only on my more extended list as I had read some reviews indicating that the changed betting structure since Brunson's writing of it had rendered it somewhat obsolete--perhaps Caro's commentary would also be a useful adjunct, too. | ||
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| Re: Starting hands (Sklansky/Malmuth), noiseboy, 10. Nov 2003 15:16 | ||
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| No, the NL section of Super/System is not at all obsolete, it is essential reading. The Limit Hold'em section of Super System is also really good, and you can make just a few adjustments in your head to the changed blind structure. Just remember that there is a bit more money in the pot to start with in todays game. | ||
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| Re: Starting hands (Sklansky/Malmuth), noiseboy, 10. Nov 2003 15:11 | ||
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| In no limit, the pairs go up in value due to the fact that flopping a set you can often clean your opponent out for everything. Hands like KJ suited or not go down in value because when you are dominated by a hand like AK, you will lose a lot more at NL. Also, the small cards connectors are more valuable in NL when you can get into a cheap multiway pot because of the huge implied odds if you catch someone on a big pair when you have something like 76 and catch a good flop S&Ms hand rankings would need to be changed significantly for NL. Not only that, so much is dependent on table texture that I doubt you can even do rankings for NL. | ||
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