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Server Time: 11/23/2008 3:52:01 AM PACIFIC |
 2 tournament hands. What do you think?, iceman5, 6. Nov 2003 12:58 | ||
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| This first hand occurred in a $2 NL tourney (550 players). Since its only a $2 tourney, obviously people do some dumb things so Im more interested in my play than his. Blinds are $50/$100. Im in about 75th place out of 350 left with $3600. I get AQs and raise to $400. I get 1 caller who has about $1400. The flop is 963 with one of my suit. The pot is about $950. The flop didnt hit me but I doubt it hit him either. I bet $150. A small bet but if he calls he only has $850 left. He calls. I figure if he had a pocket pair he wouldve reraised. The turn is a 7 no help to me. I bet another $150 hoping he'll fold. He calls again. The river is a 4 making the board 96374. I check and he goes all in. The pot is now about $2250. The bet to me is $700 so Im getting 3-1. I hate this hand but I think he something like AT or QJ. I call and he turns over K5 for the str8. I dont like the way I played this at all. His preflop call was horrible and calling all those bets needing a miracle is strange, but did I do it to myself by betting to small? If so, can I bet bigger with that hand? Hand #2....$10 SNG.. Blinds are $75/$150. Me and the other guy both have about $2500. Im in the BB with 66. Its folded around to the SB who raises to $300. Thinking he could be stealing or could have something like AJ. I reraise to $450. He calls. The flop comes AQQ. He checks. I bet $200 into a $900 pot. He thinks for a long time and folds. He then says he had KK. I told him it was a great laydown and that I had AJ. f he did have KK, do you think this is a good laydown? If I had an ace or queen he is in trouble and I could be trying to trap him with a bet of $200. What do you think of my $200 bet? | ||
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| Re: 2 tournament hands. What do you think?, KJo, 6. Nov 2003 13:42 | ||
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| First hand- he made a terrible call pre-flop, on the flop and on the turn, you made a terrible call on the river. I would have raised bigger than $150 on the flop, underbetting your pre-flop raise is often seen as a sign of weakness. I would have bet another $400, and fold if he comes over the top of you. While he shouldn't have called any bet of any size, a larger bet might have scared him off. Calling his all in on the river was a big mistake, you can barely even beat a bluff, and all he needed was one card for the straight. I suspect you were hoping he had QJ or AT rather than honestly thinking he did. His actions to me indicated 55. Second hand- I think if he had KK he would have reraised you pre-flop, but it's certainly not a certainty. I like your $200 bet, since he will likely fold unless he has an A or Q, and if he does you're going to find out about it really quick. Eli on 6. Nov 2003 12:58 iceman5 wrote: > This first hand occurred in a $2 NL tourney (550 players). Since its only a $2 > tourney, obviously people do some dumb things so Im more interested in my play > than his. Blinds are $50/$100. Im in about 75th place out of 350 left with > $3600. I get AQs and raise to $400. I get 1 caller who has about $1400. The > flop is 963 with one of my suit. The pot is about $950. The flop didnt hit me > but I doubt it hit him either. I bet $150. A small bet but if he calls he only > has $850 left. He calls. I figure if he had a pocket pair he wouldve reraised. > The turn is a 7 no help to me. I bet another $150 hoping he'll fold. He calls > again. The river is a 4 making the board 96374. I check and he goes all in. > The pot is now about $2250. The bet to me is $700 so Im getting 3-1. I hate > this hand but I think he something like AT or QJ. I call and he turns over K5 > for the str8. I dont like the way I played this at all. His preflop call was > horrible and calling all those bets needing a miracle is strange, but did I do > it to myself by betting to small? If so, can I bet bigger with that hand? > > Hand #2....$10 SNG.. Blinds are $75/$150. Me and the other guy both have about > $2500. Im in the BB with 66. Its folded around to the SB who raises to $300. > Thinking he could be stealing or could have something like AJ. I reraise to > $450. He calls. The flop comes AQQ. He checks. I bet $200 into a $900 pot. > He thinks for a long time and folds. He then says he had KK. I told him it was > a great laydown and that I had AJ. f he did have KK, do you think this is a > good laydown? If I had an ace or queen he is in trouble and I could be trying > to trap him with a bet of $200. What do you think of my $200 bet? | ||
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| Re: 2 tournament hands. What do you think?, Schuster, 6. Nov 2003 13:53 | ||
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| For the first hand, you raise to 400 before the flop then bet 150 into a pot around 900? Smells like weakness to me. If you're going to bet, then bet... don't make these post oak bluff bets. It just screams, "I have big cards and missed the flop, take the pot from me." I don't like the min raise in the second hand. He's getting 5 to 1 on a call, he's going to take a flop with any two, and if he moves in, then what do you do? If you're going to raise, then raise... don't do it with your tail between your legs. Lee | ||
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| Re: 2 tournament hands. What do you think?, iceman5, 6. Nov 2003 14:17 | ||
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| Wow, that was harsh (although deservedly so). I have questions for you underneath your statements: on 6. Nov 2003 13:53 Schuster wrote: > For the first hand, you raise to 400 before the flop then bet 150 into a pot around > 900? Smells like weakness to me. If you're going to bet, then bet... don't make > these post oak bluff bets. It just screams, "I have big cards and missed the flop, > take the pot from me." I agree with what you said. The problem is that I have nothing and if I make a real bet..and he calls...and I make a real bet again (on a now huge pot), I committing my whole tourney to this hand with nothing. But if I dont want to commit, and I check I lose when he makes a large bet. So what to do in a case where I had a big hand and miss entirely? > > I don't like the min raise in the second hand. He's getting 5 to 1 on a call, he's > going to take a flop with any two, and if he moves in, then what do you do? If > you're going to raise, then raise... don't do it with your tail between your legs. Same problem here. I dont want to fold 66 to his possible steal raise, but if I raise too much, the pot is gonna be huge, so my flop bet is going to have even bigger making me committed to a marginal hand (unless I flop the set). What would you have done? By the way, Im by no means an expert in NL although I have done quite well in SNG's and usually try to avoid these situations. > > Lee | ||
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| Re: 2 tournament hands. What do you think?, Schuster, 6. Nov 2003 14:28 | ||
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| > I agree with what you said. The problem is that I have nothing and if I make a real > bet..and he calls...and I make a real bet again (on a now huge pot), Stop right there. If he calls a reasonable bet on the flop, he's usually got something. Check and fold the turn unless you improve. You don't have to keep firing against most opponents. > Same problem here. I dont want to fold 66 to his possible steal raise, but if I raise > too much, the pot is gonna be huge, so my flop bet is going to have even bigger making me > committed to a marginal hand (unless I flop the set). What would you have done? I wouldn't fold 66 to the steal raise either. So you're left with calling or raising. If you're going to raise, you want to take it down before the flop, so make it appropriately large. He raises to 300, make it 1000 to go. He'd be hardpressed to call without a good hand. The other option is just calling and seeing the flop, and raising his inevitable flop bet if you decide to play. Yes, you are going to have to commit some chips if you want to play, but that's how no limit works. You can't be afraid to die if you want to win. And sorry if I came off as harsh, just trying to put in my two cents. Lee | ||
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| Re: 2 tournament hands. What do you think?, Mark Gregorich, 6. Nov 2003 22:14 | ||
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| I don't have too much new to add here, other than to voice my agreement with some of the comments you received: I would either make a decent sized bet on the flop with AQ (which allows you to find out if you're behind, because he can hardly call a healthy flop bet with nothing), or just check (which I feel is a bit timid with this board). If you make the decent bet on the flop and get called, its time to shut down. For the second hand, making a minimum reraise is pointless - you won't get him to fold, your hand isn't so good that you want to play a bigger pot, and it gives him an opportunity to put in a big reraise (the most important reason to not make a small raise, IMO). I don't mind making a big reraise here, as you will likely win the pot right away. If not, maybe you'll win a big pot later on. I also don't mind just calling, especially if this opponent makes lots of mistakes (you might get good action if you flop a set). Mark | ||
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| Re: 2 tournament hands. What do you think?, BigRed1, 7. Nov 2003 10:55 | ||
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| The First hand: A bigger bet sooner might have scared him off, but in these tournaments you never know. I have seen many people go all in with much worse hands than K5. I think the best thing would to have been to bet big early, or at least after the river, when you checked the river he was thinking you had nothing. He could have had T8 which is what I would have put him on. BTW where were you playing at? | ||
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| Re: 2 tournament hands. What do you think?, iceman5, 7. Nov 2003 15:57 | ||
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| Big Red, I play at PokerStars | ||
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| Re: 2 tournament hands. What do you think?, shorn, 7. Nov 2003 11:51 | ||
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| In the first hand, I think after he calls the flop, you shouldn't put in any more $$ unless you hit. He has called a raise preflop and then a bet into a ragged flop which screams I HAVE A PAIR. Sure, he disn't have anything, but you have to assume at that point he did. So, I would have shut it down after the flop call. In the second case, I think his laydown is reasonable. You re-raised him preflop and bet into an Ace high flop. Only logical that you could/would have an Ace and he is drawing thin. This is why position in NL is key. Reverse yourself with him and you check the flop he bets and you fold. Let that be a lesson to us all.... | ||
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| Re: 2 tournament hands. What do you think?, LJH, 9. Nov 2003 09:52 | ||
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| iceman5, first hand you smelt it up. either fold or raise all in preflop. 2d hand you did good because he was not going to play no matter what you did.ljh | ||
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| Re: 2 tournament hands. What do you think?, epper, 10. Nov 2003 06:52 | ||
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| Hand 1: If you are going to bet after the flop, BET. Don't give one of those, I didn't hit, but will try to win anyway routines. After he calls, you are done trying to win this pot unless you hit. Otherwise you are chasing and the guy may have second or third pair and is not going to lay down. You bet 400 preflop and 150 after -- think about what your bet is revealing. Also, don't be afraid to let go of hands -- it hurts, but you still have $$ left. Hand 2: The mistake here is small blind -- he sould have reraised you all in or gone over the top. If so, you have to lay down. With KK, he made a good lay down after the flop. Your bet was good (maybe a tad low) because he was forced to make a decision. | ||
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