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Server Time: 11/23/2008 5:29:33 AM PACIFIC |
 Table Talk, Dr_Monkey, 6. Nov 2003 10:11 | ||
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| I played a $33 SnG last night at Party. Talk about wild. First hand 3 people were all in. A guy with J8o won. (I'll call him Big Stack Fish) Another guy questioned his logic. After some comments, the guy who started questioning him said that he was going to take his chips because of his bad play. Both were big stacks. I thought to myself, that if it is the other big stack, someone would talk all the Big Stack Fish's chips because he called everything. Anyways, Big Stack Fish makes a big raise UTG. While another player is thinking about playing, the other big stack says "Don't do it." The guy thinks and folds. (I'll call this guy Warned Guy) The other big stack, goes all in for 1400. The Big Stack Fish calls with 108o. The other big stack wins with KK. I thought this was bad form and borderline illegal. Telling another player not to act implying that he was holding a strong hand. A few hands later, big stack knocks out Big Stack Fish. We are down to 4 people. And Big stack and Warned guy are in alot of hands together. Almost every hand there is talk of what they have after the flop. Majority of it is coming from Big Stack. He never lied about his hand. He's say, I have to bet my 88. And turn over 88. Warned guy had back to back hands were he announced he had pocket pairs. And he did. This was the weirdest thing I have ever seen. Not sure if it was dumb, illegal, or unethical. The no name player busted out to big stack and we were in the money. Warned guy makes some bad bluffs and busts out. I am heads up with Big stack and he has me 7000 to 1000. He announced that he had 66 when I had A8 after the flop and I bet. I think he was going to fold, but I said, I have you beat. Which I didn't. He called and I caught an 8 on the river. We played many hands. and twice he told me what he had when I asked. Both times he claimed to have 2 pair. The first time I folded and I called the second time. He didn't lie about the 2 pair when I called. (Don't know about the first time since he didn't show). Are you allowed to tell people what you have? Or lie about what you have? | ||
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| Re: Table Talk, KevinK, 6. Nov 2003 11:10 | ||
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| When it comes to talking about hand strength, its a grey area at best. Regarding the line I wouldn't do that, I'd have to judge whether you are the type to lie about hand strength or not. I once met a guy that claimed to roll dice and said he'd go all in if he rolled a 12 regardless of hand. One hand he claimed to roll it. Of course I knew it was bulls+++ bc he had strength. Sure enough it was AK suited. To me, implying is not illegal since you can take the statement anyway you like. However, when you go out and tell me what you have, that is blatantly wrong. Though, if he's crazy enough to state his hand, thats his own stupidity and your gain since you now know how he plays. | ||
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| Re: Table Talk, KJo, 6. Nov 2003 13:46 | ||
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| If this were a B&M tournament, the guy would be kicked out to the curb. First time he said anything like he said would probably be a 20 minute penalty, and if he kept it up I imagine they would throw him out. So yes, very unethical. You can't say anything to inhibit or encourage a bet. Eli on 6. Nov 2003 10:11 Dr_Monkey wrote: > I played a $33 SnG last night at Party. Talk about wild. First hand 3 people > were all in. A guy with J8o won. (I'll call him Big Stack Fish) Another guy > questioned his logic. After some comments, the guy who started questioning him > said that he was going to take his chips because of his bad play. Both were big > stacks. > > I thought to myself, that if it is the other big stack, someone would talk all > the Big Stack Fish's chips because he called everything. > > Anyways, Big Stack Fish makes a big raise UTG. While another player is > thinking about playing, the other big stack says "Don't do it." The guy thinks > and folds. (I'll call this guy Warned Guy) The other big stack, goes all in for > 1400. The Big Stack Fish calls with 108o. The other big stack wins with KK. > > I thought this was bad form and borderline illegal. Telling another player not > to act implying that he was holding a strong hand. > > A few hands later, big stack knocks out Big Stack Fish. > > We are down to 4 people. And Big stack and Warned guy are in alot of hands > together. Almost every hand there is talk of what they have after the flop. > Majority of it is coming from Big Stack. He never lied about his hand. He's > say, I have to bet my 88. And turn over 88. > > Warned guy had back to back hands were he announced he had pocket pairs. And > he did. > > This was the weirdest thing I have ever seen. Not sure if it was dumb, > illegal, or unethical. > > The no name player busted out to big stack and we were in the money. Warned > guy makes some bad bluffs and busts out. > > I am heads up with Big stack and he has me 7000 to 1000. He announced that he > had 66 when I had A8 after the flop and I bet. I think he was going to fold, > but I said, I have you beat. Which I didn't. He called and I caught an 8 on > the river. > > We played many hands. and twice he told me what he had when I asked. Both > times he claimed to have 2 pair. The first time I folded and I called the > second time. He didn't lie about the 2 pair when I called. (Don't know about > the first time since he didn't show). > > Are you allowed to tell people what you have? Or lie about what you have? > | ||
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| Re: Table Talk, Robert M, 6. Nov 2003 13:53 | ||
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| I agree, "boardtalk" and foriegn languages are always off limits. You can notify the floorman of these situations. | ||
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| Re: Table Talk, Piers Majestyk, 6. Nov 2003 14:01 | ||
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| Table talk is not unethical in my opinion. I don't play much B&M anymore but when I do I talk alot of shit, some true and some lies but all in an attempt to control my opponents into doing what I want them to do ie. not bet into me when I am weak or call wen I have the nuts. I never criticize another persons play which I consider grounds for a painful, drawn out death but playing psychological games with my opponents is all fair in war across the felt. | ||
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| Re: Table Talk, KJo, 6. Nov 2003 14:18 | ||
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| Tournaments have much stricter rules regarding table talk though, and you have to be very careful about what words you choose. Eli on 6. Nov 2003 14:01 Piers Majestyk wrote: > Table talk is not unethical in my opinion. I don't play much B&M anymore but when I do I > talk alot of shit, some true and some lies but all in an attempt to control my opponents > into doing what I want them to do ie. not bet into me when I am weak or call wen I have > the nuts. I never criticize another persons play which I consider grounds for a painful, > drawn out death but playing psychological games with my opponents is all fair in war > across the felt. | ||
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| Re: Table Talk, Robert M, 6. Nov 2003 14:17 | ||
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| Though not from the official rulebook, here it is from Caro and Cooke's rule: "16.07 COLLUSION. A player shall act only in his own-self interest, and shall make no action for the benefit of another player. The following actions shall be considered collusion, and any player participating in a collusive effort may forfeit all interest in the pot and is subject to ejection from the game and even being barred from the establishment: Imparting information about one's hand to a player in the pot. Advising someone how to play or suggesting a particular betting action." Rendering a verbal opinion about a player's holding when he bets. Agreeing to check out a hand when a third player is all-in. Agreeing to save a certain amount of money with another player if either wins the hand, when there is potential betting remaining for one or both of the players and other players are involved in the pot. Encouraging another player to turn his hand over face-up at the showdown so that he has a claim on the pot. Soft-play agreements not to bet or raise another player when head's up. Refunding money won to a player, such as the last bet. | ||
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| Re: Table Talk, mkpoker, 6. Nov 2003 14:23 | ||
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| I have no trouble with such table talk at all. Against players who are tilting a bit, betting while saying something like or "you don't want to call" is often enough to get them to toss in another bet. | ||
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| Re: Table Talk, Grateful Rooster, 6. Nov 2003 14:35 | ||
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| I would think the first instance where the stack told another guy NOT to bet in order to get head's up with the fish would be grounds for penalty or dismissal. Talk to the online table manager about that. I would thing the other talk about what you are holding is fair as long as one player is not advantaged or disadvantaged against another. I'd like to hear a pro's view on this, though. --GR | ||
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| Re: Table Talk, iceman5, 6. Nov 2003 14:43 | ||
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| I agree with mkpoker, that some table talk can work in your favor. I was playing a SNG and lost a hand to a guy who had called a large preflop raise with QT. After the hand I asked him why he would do that and he said "beat you didnt I?". A little later I was in the BB with A4..the board showed 4KJA. I went all in figuring he didnt have AK or AJ because there was no preflop raise. This guy was the only one in the hand with me and I said "beat me now!". He called with A7. Maybe he wouldve called anyway, but I think me taunting him helped. By the way, on the original post where the guy with KK said "dont do it"...maybe he shouldve let the guy call and then he couldve called both of them and knocked them both out. | ||
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| Re: Table Talk, Dr_Monkey, 7. Nov 2003 05:10 | ||
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| on 6. Nov 2003 14:43 iceman5 wrote: > By the way, on the original post where the guy with KK said "dont do it"...maybe he > shouldve let the guy call and then he couldve called both of them and knocked them both > out. Yeah, I thought the same thing. I had the sneaky feeling that these two were friends. At the very least he could have gotten an extra bet into the pot since he went all in. | ||
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| Re: Table Talk, LJH, 7. Nov 2003 09:59 | ||
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| DR_MONKEY, THE ONLY TIME YOU CANNOT LLIE IS IF YOU SAY RAISE OR CALL. IF HE WANTS TO SAY WHAT HE HAS OR LIE ABOUT IT, THEN CAVEAT EMPTOR, LET THE CALLER BEWARE, MEANING YOU. LJH | ||
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| Re: Table Talk, Formless, 7. Nov 2003 19:38 | ||
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| The problem with playing at party poker is that you can't complain to support if you are cheated because Party support is, let's say, ineffective. In the case where the guy had KK he was clearly out of line. If Party won't protect you, protect yourself and speak up loudly and let everyone know he is a big cheat. I table talk all the time but I am certain where the line is and I don't cross it. At PokerStars or Paradise people get refunded when they get cheated. | ||
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