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Server Time: 9/6/2008 10:12:26 AM PACIFIC |
 Review of Four Laughlin, NV Poker Rooms, FeliciaLee, 3. Nov 2003 23:05 | ||
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| (Originally posted 9/30/03) No, this post isn't about playing a poker hand to the river. The river I am referring to is the Colorado River which divides Laughlin, NV from Bullhead City, AZ. On this river there are four poker rooms: The Riverside, The Colorado Belle, The Flamingo Hilton and The River Palms. I will try to give you reviews of all four poker rooms from a "new resident" perspective. The first time I played poker in Laughlin, I went to the River Palms. They advertised a "no check" hold'em tournament. I was hot and tired, having driven around Arizona looking at houses that day. The management was extremely kind and friendly. The poker room rate of $35 was offered to me, although I had yet to even sit into a live game. I was told the hotel was sold-out, but the manager still found a poker room for me, and even went to registration to secure the room, so that I wouldn't have to wait in a long line. A-plus for service! The River Palms is a small poker room, offering only five tables, most of which are empty at any given time. When I walked in, $2-5 spread limit hold'em was the only game going. The players were soft, the rake is max $3.00 plus the bbj drop ($1 max). The button is forward moving. The tournament never got going due to lack of interest. I have never seen them get one going since I have been playing in the area. I have also never seen more than three tables spread at once (one stud, two hold'em). Although the staff is very friendly and the competition is soft, this poker room just doesn't have any action. I have been told that it has changed ownership recently (for the 3rd time?), and that the new ownership isn't interested in keeping the poker room going. This is all rumor, I am not sure what is happening there, myself. The Flamingo Hilton is a very small poker room, as well. I can't even really call it a poker "room," as it is just a small section off of the main pit (any of you who have been in the poker room at Vegas' Flamingo Hilton know what I'm talking about). The locals say that the 4/8 hold'em game is very good, but I have never seen any sign of that. Most of the people playing were 70ish and extremely rocky. They spread no tournaments and I have never seen more than one hold'em, one stud game going. Most of the time it looks dead to me. The Riverside is a dump. It is like playing poker with the mob. It is a largish room, but the decorations date back to the 70's and 80's. The tables are too close together, and the decor is very dark. Every member of the staff, save one or two, are extremely rude and "scary." This poker room is one of the most unfriendly I have ever played in. The first time I played at the Riverside was for an Omaha 8 tourney. I bought in from a guy in a cage and was given a card with my table and seat. I sat down in that seat to wait for the tourney to start. Not long after, I was told to move to another table, as the table numbers weren't correct for the tournament. No sweat, I moved. A few minutes went by and I was told to move yet again. Okay, everyone has screw-ups. Right before the tournament started, the poker room manager came by barking at the staff and ordering everyone around. He told the entire table to move yet again. One player balked a little at having been moved three times. He yelled back, "Hey, listen, buddy, *I* am the manager here, I tell YOU what to do, not the other way around. If I tell you to move, you'll move, do you hear me?" Oh, my! Now this is a bit over the top. Thus begins my illustration of how the entire poker room is operated. I was seated in the 2 seat. The woman in the one seat and the man in the three seat fought the entire tournament. They constantly yelled at each other and were badgering back and forth for hours. It was NOT fun. The dealers were rude and yelled at the players if they didn't act fast enough or there was some kind of squabble over dividing the pot. Floor people and the manager came around to yell in their two cents every so often. I swore to myself I would never play in that dump again! Oh, but I have played there again, twice more! Why would I do this? Well, because they have a policy that if one finishes in the top four spots for any of the weekday tourneys, they automatically get a freeroll in the Saturday tourney. Then, the top two spots on Saturday get a freeroll for the quarterly tourney. Ugh! So my husband and I went back on Saturday for the free seat. If anything, Saturday was even worse. This is definitely ghetto poker! First off, I went to the cage to get my chips. The man standing behind the cage said, "What can I get you, Sir?" I said, "I'm a woman." He looked me square in the face and laughed, scoffing at me. Nice way to start the day! During the tournament, which mirrored the last one (with the yelling and dictating), a player in the one seat playing stud suddenly looked at the dealer in disbelief that he had lost a hand. When the dealer looked at him, to take back his cards, the player suddenly reared back and punched the dealer full in the face. The dealer immediately called for security, in shock. Security was not called. Both the floorman and the poker room manager just lifted the guy up by his armpits and told him that poker players are not allowed to punch dealers, and to leave the room. They escorted him to the exit, and that was the last we saw. Not only was security NOT called, nor were the police. They didn't even take down this guys name, nor did they eject him from the rest of the casino. NICE. This reflects the behavior that abounds at the Riverside. There are other, smaller examples of the horrendous behavior exhibited at the Riverside, but I think I made my point with the punching incident. After talking with dozens of locals and other cardroom employees, I have heard that the Riverside is a magnet for thugs, thieves and outlaws. My Mom, who dealt in Vegas for about 7 years, told me that losers who have been kicked out of every cardroom in Vegas often go to the Riverside because they know that is the only cardroom they will never get banned from. Enough said! The Colorado Belle is the cream of the crop in Laughlin. It is a larger poker room, with ten tables. The seats are moderately comfortable with plentiful cushions to be found. They have the "tough" felt, which doesn't get under the fingernails or stain the fingers as easily. The rake is the traditional $3.00 max with a $1.00 max bad beat jackpot. Their poker room rate is only $20, and seems to be given liberally, as well as the $4.00 comps to any of their restaurants, including restaurants at the Edgewater (a sister property nextdoor). Since the Belle is owned by the Mandalay Bay company, which also owns Luxor and other known casinos, their set-up mirrors those sister cardrooms in a lot of ways. The Belle spreads 2-5 hold'em with a full kill. It is an interesting game, mostly no-fold'em, hold'em, except when the pensioner's play during the day (rocks). Once we got a 5/10 game going, which was very profitable. On weekends, they get a 10/20 game with a 1/2 kill going, and that is a wild game, mirroring the pink chip game at the Tropicana (7.50/15). During the hours of 8pm-midnight, a drawing for a stack ($100) is held every hour. All 10/20 seated player are given tickets for being at the table every hour, plus extra tickets for initiating a kill pot. This makes the game that much more wild. It is not uncommon to have 8 players see every flop, through 4 bets! Most of the dealers at the Belle are extremely friendly and work hard at being good at their jobs. The locals tip fantastically, which so goes against the rock persona that they exhibit. One of the dealers flashes every, single burn card. I never purposely try to sit in the 8, 9 or 10 seat, but when I am sitting in those seats, I have the benefit of seeing those cards. I don't "try" to look, as I am not an angle shooter and I feel my game is good without cheating, but he is so blatant about showing those cards that they are just there, staring everyone straight in the face. There are daily tournaments at the Belle. Pineapple is offered each morning at 10am. It is only a $10 buy-in with a $2 entry fee. This is not California Pineapple, you must throw away one card before the flop, not after. The regular tourney players are horrific, as they feel that since two out of any three cards must be good, and play every hand. On Sundays, the Belle adds $100 to this tournament. On Mondays there is a limit to no-limit hold'em tournament. Incredibly, the buy-in is $25 with NO entry fee, plus the house adds $500 to the prize pool (I am certain this is taken out of the bad beat jackpot, which is fine with me). There is a $5 bounty on each player's head. The structure is very fast, like the Luxor et al. You are only given 100 starting chips, no dealer's add-on. Blinds start at 5/5 for 20 minutes, increase to 5/10 then 10/20. After that, it is no limit. Anytime a player has less than 100 chips, during the first hour, he can rebuy for $10 and get another 100. So many players do multiple rebuys that it increases the prize pool dramatically. After the first hour, players can get an additional 500 chips for $20, no matter how many chips they have at the time. This is the only add-on offered. After the ten minute break, the stakes are no limit and the levels shorten to 15 minutes. Things get even crazier! Most of the time, these tourneys are sold out, with many alternates. The Belle needs to add tables, desperately. They, like everyone else in the industry, are suffering huge growing pains, with the WPT explosion. I was told that they used to get two to three games going daily, with maybe four on the weekends. Now all ten tables are regularly filled, and when the tournaments start, that takes away five tables, with many people on waiting lists for cash games, as well as alternates for the tourneys. The room is packed, with railbirds lurking 3 deep at the rail. Thursday and Friday bring Omaha 8 tourneys. They are essentially the same structure, with the same buy-in, no juice, $500 added, etc. Omaha 8 seems to be the "Laughlin" game. The locals love it. When you mention Omaha to any of the older people, their eyes light up like it's Christmas time. Almost every night, there is a 5/10 Omaha game. There is almost always a list for Omaha and/or an interest list for higher limits. Sometimes Omaha has the most tables going at any given time. It is amazing how much the locals love Omaha. Unfortunately for me, the EV is still not as good as hold'em, due to the fact that it takes so long per hand. The locals never bother to memorize their hole cards, and since they are mostly 70+, it takes them forever to study both their cards, and the board, every time a community card is added. It is not uncommon to see one hand last ten minutes. Although they play very loosely (8-10 seeing every flop), and I feel the game is beatable by a mile, it drives me to distraction, and I cannot see where the hourly rate would be as high as the smaller hold'em games (unless they increase limits, which happens occasionally at the Omaha table). Sometimes, on the weekends, during the graveyard shift, a small buy-in NLHE or PLHE game gets going. I guess I am getting old, because I can't seem to stay up that late anymore, and always end up leaving before anyone initiates playing overs. Once per month, the Belle offers a tournament cruise. The cruise is free, as is the food, etc, I believe. The tournament is the same limit to no-limit structured hold'em. The buy-in is $100 the entry fee is $10. I haven't taken the first cruise yet (it is the first Wednesday of each month), so I will report on how that went after it is over. Overall, I would rate the Colorado Belle as an A+ for service, games spread, hospitality, personality and +EV. Come on over, when you get the chance, and ride the river! Felicia :) | ||
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| Re: Review of Four Laughlin, NV Poker Rooms, 4 POKER, 3. Nov 2003 23:19 | ||
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| (ROTF)! YOU get an A+ for your writing skills! This is great stuff! .....thanks again FeliciaLee :) 4P- | ||
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| Re: Review of Four Laughlin, NV Poker Rooms, Alan Lister, 4. Nov 2003 01:14 | ||
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| I had a very poor experience at the Flamingo Hilton Poker Room in Laughlin. About 6 months ago on a Thursday evening, the "rocks/locals" kept arguing and tearing the cards. The dealers would cover for the misbehaving players when the floorman would come to the table to investigate a problem. I played for about 2 hours, mostly watching elder men behave like children and give their money away. I kept reminding myself how good the game was and to tolerate their behavior. After the 2 hours I realized it might be good, but it wasn't fun. I cashed out and left. Yes I told the Floor about it. Alan Lister | ||
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| Re: Review of Four Laughlin, NV Poker Rooms, FeliciaLee, 4. Nov 2003 13:34 | ||
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| on 4. Nov 2003 01:14 Alan Lister wrote: > I had a very poor experience at the Flamingo Hilton Poker Room in Laughlin. About 6 > months ago on a Thursday evening, the "rocks/locals" kept arguing and tearing the > cards. The dealers would cover for the misbehaving players when the floorman would > come to the table to investigate a problem. I played for about 2 hours, mostly > watching elder men behave like children and give their money away. I kept reminding > myself how good the game was and to tolerate their behavior. After the 2 hours I > realized it might be good, but it wasn't fun. I cashed out and left. Yes I told the > Floor about it. > Alan Lister>> Good Gawd! Now why doesn't this surprise me? It sounds a lot like the Riverside, except you didn't say that the floormen were hitting the locals upside the head or anything like that, lol. Felicia :) My Poker Journal: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeliciaLee | ||
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| Re: Review of Four Laughlin, NV Poker Rooms, gary ford, 4. Nov 2003 14:36 | ||
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| Felicia your reviews are great!! Many of the posters play in multiple cardrooms and i wish others would do the same, PLease continue to re-post your adventures--youre also a very good writer | ||
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| Re: Review of Four Laughlin, NV Poker Rooms, FeliciaLee, 5. Nov 2003 11:14 | ||
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| on 4. Nov 2003 14:36 gary ford wrote: > Felicia your reviews are great!! Many of the posters play in multiple cardrooms and i wish > others would do the same, PLease continue to re-post your adventures--youre also a very good > writer>> Tyvm, Gary! I have gotten a fantastic response from this site! I don't know why I started slacking off on posting here last spring. I guess it was just the diabetes, limiting what I could do each day. I really appreciate all of the wonderful feedback from UPF! Felicia :) My Poker Journal: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeliciaLee | ||
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| Re: Review of Four Laughlin, NV Poker Rooms, gary ford, 5. Nov 2003 11:28 | ||
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| on 4. Nov 2003 13:34 FeliciaLee wrote: > on 4. Nov 2003 01:14 Alan Lister wrote: > > I had a very poor experience at the Flamingo Hilton Poker Room in Laughlin. About 6 > > months ago on a Thursday evening, the "rocks/locals" kept arguing and tearing the > > cards. The dealers would cover for the misbehaving players when the floorman would Hi again---i accessed your journal and signed on to Yahoo groups, but i cant link to anything on your home page. i want to read your journals, but i must be doing something wrong. P.S. i dont know how that man could ever call you sir!!!!!! > > come to the table to investigate a problem. I played for about 2 hours, mostly > > watching elder men behave like children and give their money away. I kept reminding > > myself how good the game was and to tolerate their behavior. After the 2 hours I > > realized it might be good, but it wasn't fun. I cashed out and left. Yes I told the > > > Floor about it. > > Alan Lister>> > > Good Gawd! Now why doesn't this surprise me? It sounds a lot like the Riverside, except > you didn't say that the floormen were hitting the locals upside the head or anything like > that, lol. > > Felicia :) > > My Poker Journal: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeliciaLee | ||
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| Re: Review of Four Laughlin, NV Poker Rooms, FeliciaLee, 5. Nov 2003 11:37 | ||
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| on 5. Nov 2003 11:28 gary ford wrote:> Hi again---i accessed your journal and signed on to Yahoo groups, but i > cant link to anything on your home page. i want to read your journals, but i must be doing > something wrong. > > P.S. i dont know how that man could ever call you sir!!!!!!>> I think you have to have a Yahoo account or something (free). Everyone keeps telling me they are having the same problem. Sorry :( LOL, I get called "sir" all the time, but most people are polite when I correct them. I don't look very feminine in the poker room, believe me. I'm just like any other regular poker player. Sweats, no makeup, military-short haircut, etc. That reminds me, I should post a pic on the journal about how I look at the poker table, lol. Felicia :) My Poker Journal: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeliciaLee | ||
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| Updated River News, FeliciaLee, 7. Nov 2003 14:44 | ||
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| I guess there are perks to keeping my journal beyond the obvious benefit of introspection. A dealer stumbled upon some of my posts at another poker forum. That got him interested in reading more of my poker "stories." Pretty soon, half of the poker room staff was interested in reading my journal. The downside is that I feel a little bit exposed, right in my "home" cardroom. The perk is that people actually find out things that are going on when they are not working, and can set to rights some of the problems that have occurred in the last couple of months at the Belle (mainly the 4/8 game controversy). James, the poker room manager, told me that he'd shown my Laughlin poker room review to the general manager of the Belle. The manager said something about having the review published in a local paper. Yikes! Thank God James vetoed that idea, because I cannot imagine the backlash I'd receive from my scathing criticism of the Riverside. Not that they could publish anything without my permission anyway, but still, just the thought of it makes chills run up and down my spine. Speaking of the Riverside...I heard some even more disturbing news about their cardroom. I will ask for details tonight at the poker room, so that I will not misquote any facts, but the news is that dealers at the Riverside have to "pay" the floormen and poker room manager to deal! Yes, they have to PAY them each hour, each down, and for each table. That is why there are so many shorthanded tables at the Riverside compared to other cardrooms. That is why a dealer will deal only a down, maybe two, then have a break. Deal another down or two, then another break. They want to keep as many tables open, and as many dealers dealing as possible, because the management gets their palms greased whether or not the dealers are making any money!!! No wonder everyone is so grumpy there! The amounts were astronomical and completely unbelievable, so I won't quote any dollars until I get 100% confirmation that this is the truth. The $100 hold'em tourney was weird. I never received a pocket pair. No, not once. From 30 players we got down to about 15 in a couple of hours, yet I'd still never gotten a premium hand! Not even ATs, AJ, AQ or AK. Nada, zilch. I survived so long only because we are given 1000 starting chips! I did manage to win one pot, in the first level, but nothing else was even playable. Finally, with just 400 chips left and the blinds at 200/400, I got AKo and pushed all in, only to be beaten when the chip lead's K4o made a wheel on the river. Doh! On Thursday, we were back to Omaha. I made it to the final couple of tables, but then Gary, who was the chip lead overall (and went on to win the tourney), outdrew me. He called my all-in with a low draw, but ended up making the wheel. Once again, outdrawn. Blah! My cash games haven't been going so well, either. Just on a bad run. I'm probably playing better than I have ever played before, due to studying and being even more aware since being outplayed at 10/20 on Saturday, but I am still losing. I knew I'd have to go through this sooner or later. No one just wins, wins, wins every session. If that were so, poker would dry up and cease to exist. I just sit in my chair and smile. I will talk if other players want to talk, or I will sit silently if no one initiates conversation. I am going to be in Vegas during Thanksgiving week. I hope to play a few games not available in Laughlin. Plus, I want to try an experiment, which I will expound on more in the days to come. Anyone going to be in Vegas? If so, check out the calendar feature at my journal site, and let's plan on meeting up to take the poker city by storm! Felicia :) My Poker Journal: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeliciaLee | ||
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| Re: Updated River News, gary ford, 7. Nov 2003 15:51 | ||
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| on 7. Nov 2003 14:44 FeliciaLee wrote: > I guess there are perks to keeping my journal beyond the obvious benefit of > introspection. A dealer stumbled upon some of my posts at another poker forum. That > got him interested in reading more of my poker "stories." Pretty soon, half of the > poker room staff was interested in reading my journal. > > The downside is that I feel a little bit exposed, right in my "home" cardroom. The > perk is that people actually find out things that are going on when they are not > working, and can set to rights some of the problems that have occurred in the last > couple of months at the Belle (mainly the 4/8 game controversy). > > James, the poker room manager, told me that he'd shown my Laughlin poker room review > to the general manager of the Belle. The manager said something about having the > review published in a local paper. Yikes! Thank God James vetoed that idea, because I > cannot imagine the backlash I'd receive from my scathing criticism of the Riverside. > Not that they could publish anything without my permission anyway, but still, just > the thought of it makes chills run up and down my spine. > > Speaking of the Riverside...I heard some even more disturbing news about their > cardroom. I will ask for details tonight at the poker room, so that I will not > misquote any facts, but the news is that dealers at the Riverside have to "pay" the > floormen and poker room manager to deal! Yes, they have to PAY them each hour, each > down, and for each table. That is why there are so many shorthanded tables at the > Riverside compared to other cardrooms. That is why a dealer will deal only a down, > maybe two, then have a break. Deal another down or two, then another break. They want > to keep as many tables open, and as many dealers dealing as possible, because the > management gets their palms greased whether or not the dealers are making any > money!!! No wonder everyone is so grumpy there! The amounts were astronomical and > completely unbelievable, so I won't quote any dollars until I get 100% confirmation > that this is the truth. > > The $100 hold'em tourney was weird. I never received a pocket pair. No, not once. > From 30 players we got down to about 15 in a couple of hours, yet I'd still never > gotten a premium hand! Not even ATs, AJ, AQ or AK. Nada, zilch. I survived so long > only because we are given 1000 starting chips! I did manage to win one pot, in the > first level, but nothing else was even playable. Finally, with just 400 chips left > and the blinds at 200/400, I got AKo and pushed all in, only to be beaten when the > chip lead's K4o made a wheel on the river. Doh! > > On Thursday, we were back to Omaha. I made it to the final couple of tables, but > then Gary, who was the chip lead overall (and went on to win the tourney), outdrew > me. He called my all-in with a low draw, but ended up making the wheel. Once again, > outdrawn. Blah! > > My cash games haven't been going so well, either. Just on a bad run. I'm probably > playing better than I have ever played before, due to studying and being even more > aware since being outplayed at 10/20 on Saturday, but I am still losing. I knew I'd > have to go through this sooner or later. No one just wins, wins, wins every session. > If that were so, poker would dry up and cease to exist. I just sit in my chair and > smile. I will talk if other players want to talk, or I will sit silently if no one > initiates conversation. > > I am going to be in Vegas during Thanksgiving week. I hope to play a few games not > available in Laughlin. Plus, I want to try an experiment, which I will expound on > more in the days to come. Anyone going to be in Vegas? If so, check out the calendar > feature at my journal site, and let's plan on meeting up to take the poker city by > storm! > > Felicia :) > > My Poker Journal: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeliciaLee Hi Felicia--You might consider an anonymouse letter to the GM of Riverside, if in fact the story is true. Or if you feel you can take the punishment, go over and try to see for yourself. ( take along a bodyguard ). Does your husband play? I never see any stories about his adventures. I live in LV so I'd be happy to meet you both e-mail Garyford3@aol.com | ||
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