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Server Time: 9/7/2008 5:46:02 PM PACIFIC |
 Floorman Please...Wrong Dealer Call, mkpoker, 2. Nov 2003 19:10 | ||
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| I wasn't involved in this hand, but if I were the player with the "winning" str8, I'd doubt I would have felt nearly as charitable. I have a suggestion (listed below), but what do you think is the proper resolution to this situation? There's a straight draw and a flush draw on the board. At showdown, 4 players turn their cards face up. The dealer calls the straight a winner, tosses the losers into the muck, and pushes the pot to the straight holder. Within a few seconds (but after the pot has been pushed), a player claims to have held a flush. Her neighbors vouch for her, saying they saw her hand and the dealer missed it. By all accounts, the "flush" holder and her neighbors seem like honorable people. The dealer starts turning over cards in the muck, looking for her hand, but everything is all mixed-up. I didn't see the cards, but I think it's quite likely she was telling the truth. Saying "cards speak" the dealer asks the straight holder (who hasn't yet started to stack chips but is holding the pot) to push it to the other player. He does so. If it were me, I wonder if I would have been so nice. Once the dealer calls the winner, pushes the pot, AND the other cards are mucked, it's over. How can "cards speak" once they're in the muck! I would have called the floorman and suggested that Bellagio pay for the dealer's mistake by ponying up a double pot, one for each "winner." Would they have done so? If you were in this situation, what would you have done? | ||
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| Re: Floorman Please...Wrong Dealer Call, Formless, 2. Nov 2003 19:50 | ||
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| Easy question. The guy with a live hand gets the pot, period. If your hand was mucked, you get zilch, period. You do not release your hand until you are sure you are beat, and you don't release your winning hand until the pot is pushed and you get a receipt from the dealer. Dealers should kill losing and mucked hands before pushing the pot, then take the winners' cards. Stories like this make me sick, but are all too frequent in B & M cardrooms. Long live online poker! | ||
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| Re: Floorman Please...Wrong Dealer Call, MozMan, 2. Nov 2003 20:03 | ||
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| Unfortunately, even though she might likely have had the winning hand, she allowed her cards to be mucked, so her hand is dead and pot belongs to the guy with the str8. Now, just being the kind of guy I am, if I was the guy with the str8 and I saw her hand and knew she really won, I would have pushed the pot to her (as I suspect was the case with the guy who was actually in the situation). If I did NOT see her hand (unlikely, I look at them all) I would offer to split to be charitable and keep good favor in the game. If I saw the hand and it was not what she claimed, then I would be looking for a floorman and defending my pot. -Moz "Did you exchange a walk-on part in a war for the lead-role in a cage?" | ||
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| Re: Floorman Please...Wrong Dealer Call, Bart Mann, 3. Nov 2003 11:54 | ||
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| A strikingly similar story with me as the victim happened this past Saturday (two days ago) at the local B&M. I'm playing $3/$6 Holdem, and after a huge amount of raising it's down to me (in seat #2) and one other player (in seat #10). The best hand possible with the Turn and River exposed is a straight--but you have to have the inside card (the 7) to make it. As luck would have it, I did. The only hand that could beat me at this point was a hand with a 7 and the top card (the 10). Last round of betting happens, and the cards come over. I expose my 9-high straight, only to hear the dealer say "10 high straight," and start pushing the pot over to my opponent. Dammit. But as the other player is stacking his chips I glance over just in time to see the dealer put my opponent's K10 into the muck. Wait a minute . . . K10 gives this guy two pair, but NOT a straight. I immediately say something, and am quickly joined by each of the 8 remaining people at the table (no exaggeration here). Everyone is claiming that the pot is mine, so the dealer calls the floor manager over. The floor manager asks me what I had, and I tell him definitively "7-8 of clubs." He looks at the other player and asks the same question. The answer is "Um, I can't remember." The floor manager asks him if he had a straight. The player says "Maybe. I'm not sure." The floor declares that because the cards were mucked it was the other player's pot (well over $80). Several people at the table express their disbelief as I sit there, stunned, that this jerk would actually lie to keep the money. If he needs the money that badly I guess he can have it, but I would prefer to be beaten than stolen from. From now until the end of time, I am NOT letting go of my cards until I get a clear view of the board AND the other players' cards. | ||
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| Re: Floorman Please...Wrong Dealer Call, enthejungle, 3. Nov 2003 13:42 | ||
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| OUCH | ||
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| Re: Floorman Please...Wrong Dealer Call, LJH, 3. Nov 2003 14:12 | ||
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| DEAR BART, I THOUGHT YOU WERE MORE EXPERIENCED. I'VE SEEN YOU ANSWERING MANY QUESTIONS. YOU AND I KNOW THAT YOU NEVER LET GO OF YOUR CARDS UNTIL ALL OF THE HANDS LEFT ARE TURNED UP AND CHECKED BY THE DEALER. AS YOU HAD A STRAIGHT IT WAS INCUMBENT ON YOU TO HANG ON TO YOUR CARDS, ESPECIALLY WHEN CHEKING THE OTHER CARDS. WHEN THE DEALER CALLED A STRAIGHT FOR THE OTHER PLAYER, YOU STILL MUST KEEP YOUR CARDS UNTIL YOU CHECKED THAT HAND. I KNOW YOU WERE ROBBED, BUT WHO IS TO BLAME-------LOOK IN THE MIRROR. BAD THINGS CAN HAPPEN TO GOOD PEOPLE. LJH | ||
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| Re: Floorman Please...Wrong Dealer Call, Bart Mann, 3. Nov 2003 15:00 | ||
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| Dear LJH: For some reason, whever you reply to my posts you always end up sounding like you're hammering on me. Not sure why--maybe it's just your demeanor--but I guess I will honor this post with a reply as well. The bottom line is, for me the best way to learn something is to make a mistake. As many times as people have told me to "protect my cards," I never actually gave it much thought until a No-Limit tournament this past summer, when the dealer grabbed and subsequently mucked my KK while I was pushing all-in. And until Saturday, I had never--in almost 10 years of playing--seen this dealer make a mistake like that. I’ve played at this guy’s table two hundred times. I know what his favorite foods are, where he takes his wife for dinner and where he goes fishing on his days off. When he said the words “10-high straight” and started pushing chips I couldn’t see the other player’s hand (he was in the 10-hole and my view was obstructed by the dealer) but it never occurred to me that he was wrong. And per my original post, I wasn’t looking to blame anyone. I didn’t ask anyone to feel sorry for me, or to tell me that I got screwed. I was merely letting the original poster know that he wasn’t alone. I read a post a few months ago from one of the pros to a beginner that stated “no poker player ever worries about protecting his cards until his AA ends up in the muck.” I think that about sums it up. | ||
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| Re: Floorman Please...Wrong Dealer Call, grant, 3. Nov 2003 14:23 | ||
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| I'm a poker player and a dealer. It makes me sick that you would have such bad luck like this. Not only is the dealer unprofessional. But sounds to me like the floor staff is as well. When I was in poker dealer school our instructor told us if we ever pushed the pot to the wring person the dealer is personally responsible for paying the winner if the other players has claimed the pot. Luckily I've never made that mistake. I also wonder why the floor never went to the cameras. They are there for the integrity of the game. | ||
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| Re: Floorman Please...Wrong Dealer Call, rdale, 3. Nov 2003 14:46 | ||
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| exactly, if there is a decision like this made at a blackjack game, dealer grabbing cards, mucking hands, the camera tells the true results. | ||
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