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Server Time: 11/23/2008 5:20:51 AM PACIFIC |
 Advice checklist for 1st time buyin, vest besterly, 2. Nov 2003 18:27 | ||
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| Perhaps you experienced players can help me out. I'm about to do my 1st real $ buyin with a web site. 1) Is there any corrolation between good fake $ play and real. This seems like a common beartrap for newbies to walk into. I tend to do very well at the highest limit tables (fake$) I can find on PokerRoom, and I always try to look for tables with big $ holders and a low players in the flop % so that I can maybe find some people I can learn from, but on the other hand it is still fake $ and people don't respect bluffs and raises the way they should. I've watched lots of real $ 2-4 games where the flop % was about the same, and they seemed to be playing roughly the same accepting not as many people in the hands all the way to end. The Single Table high fake$ tourneys I've been doing I assume are a little closer to real $ because it's the same buyin for fake chips scheme, unfortunately I tend to do poorly in these, should I take this as an omen, or do I just happen to not be a tourney player at this point in time? (25% in the $..... blachh) 2) Which site should I try first? The general consensus seems to be PartyPoker for the highest ammount of inexperienced players, but they seem heavy on NL, and I intend to stick to Limit (more the Howard Lederer school than Phil Ivey). PokerRoom has some very nice promotions, but there seems to be little $ on the tables, and I don't want to stumble into a site where players are on par or better than me. 3) Intend to do $500 buyin and play $1-2 for a month before even contemplating anything else. Sound reasonable? 4) Since I'm expecting to "best-case-scenario" play %5-10 better than my fellow player, the rake is a big deal for me. Obviously it hovers around %3-5 for low limit games I'll be forced to play in, but it's only about %1 for the $25-50 or comparable, do you guys take that extra %3 into account when choosing a table, or will the higher calliber of player more than neutralize that and more? 5) What should I play? I like Limit as I said, but if the juicier players gravitate to NL I'll make it a point to play this. Pot-limit seems too pro for me. I'll play a few $10 Single Table tourneys, but if I can't get in the $ in 3 out of ten I'll stop. Is it a phallacy to assume that people who don't know much about poker see it on tv and immediately go to whatever site was advertised and play NL, since that's the game they saw on tv? 6) Best times to play? Is it smart to play a couple hours after a tv tourney in the hopes of catching less experienced players? I've also noticed a glut of traffic on certain sites in the morning (6-9 AM), is this the retirees traffic I've read about? Are they lucrative to play against, or are they too tight? 7) Do you give any strategic thought to the name you'll use. I thought of using a name like Drunk_newbie as apposed to Big_Slick or something like that, which would give me an advantage to representing a player that wouldn't be likely to check-raise and whatnot. Or are these types of petty theatrics just as likely to blow up in your face (pros smarm in to fleece the newbie) ? 8) Is the vast majority of online poker on the up and up? I'm not worried about the web sites themselves but the vast # of anonymous $ that the internet of course provides. Does anyone know how prevelent players in collusion and other crooked techniques are? I've been thinking about it and it wouldn't be that hard to pull off if you're computer and banking system savy (I'm not going to say how cause I don't want to contribute to this activity). If these people are numerous enough to even take %4 off my game I don't think it would be wise for me to play real$. Sites talk big about having experts on staff tracking this sort of play, but does anyone know if they are really backing it up? 9) Advice for my play personally? I figure the one advantage that I have is lots of time and patience. If things work out I could easily play 60hrs a week without interfering with the odd jobs I do for living $, or my personal life. Thanks infinitely for advice, I found this site a couple weeks ago and have hardly taken it off my desktop. Vest Besterly | ||
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| Re: Advice checklist for 1st time buyin, mkpoker, 2. Nov 2003 18:56 | ||
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| on 2. Nov 2003 18:27 vest besterly wrote: > Perhaps you experienced players can help me out. I'm about to do my 1st real > $ buyin with a web site. > > 1) Is there any corrolation between good fake $ play and real? Matt Says: In a word, no. Maybe at the super-micro-limits, but not at all once real money is involved. \ > 2) Which site should I try first? The general consensus seems to be PartyPoker Matt says: Party is fine. Personally, I like UB. I wouldn't go to any unfamiliar start-up sites. Because you're setting up a new account, I'd look for the site (among the established sites) that are currently offering the best bonus deals. > > 3) Intend to do $500 buyin and play $1-2 for a month before even contemplating > anything else. Sound reasonable? Matt says: Sure. Again, for a new account, the bonus offered will be huge for you. Whatever your deposit, make sure it's enough to quality. > > 4) Since I'm expecting to "best-case-scenario" play %5-10 better than my fellow > player, the rake is a big deal for me. Obviously it hovers around %3-5 for low > Matt says: The rakes will always be lower online than in B&M, and I suspect the difference in your overall return will be insignificant. Play your best game at the level you feel most comfortable with. > 5) What should I play? I like Limit as I said, but if the juicier players > gravitate to NL I'll make it a point to play this. Matt says: For starters, I would only play limit ring games and, if you want to try NL, stick to low-dollar SnGs. Cash NL games are, IMO, too high risk for beginning players. > 6) Best times to play? Is it smart to play a couple hours after a tv tourney in > the hopes of catching less experienced players? Matt says: I have a somewhat unorthodox view on this oft-discussed question. I think the "best time" to play is when YOU feel at your sharpest. If you're a morning person, play early. If you're a night-owl, try late. I've been told that the best time to play is very late at night/early morning, when the all-nighters are getting tired. But I can't think straight at 3 a.m., so it's not the right time for me! > 7) Do you give any strategic thought to the name you'll use. Matt Says: I play under my dog's name, so I guess the answer is no. If someone has the name "drunk_newbie" would you really think that person is a drunk newbie? > 8) Is the vast majority of online poker on the up and up? Matt Says: Collusion can (and I think does) happen. But I'd worry much more about the big dollar tournaments than the $1-$2 ring games. The profit expectation would be so slim, it wouldn't be worth it to cheat! > > 9) Advice for my play personally? I figure the one advantage that I have is > lots of time and patience. Read. Play. Read some more. Play tight. Look back and analyze your play, looking for mistakes. When you're unsure, post a hand up on UPF and you'll get tons of contrary opinions! Good luck. | ||
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| Re: Advice checklist for 1st time buyin, Palinya, 2. Nov 2003 23:38 | ||
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| I might be more conservative than you but I wouldn't jump into a 1-2$ game without proving to yourself you can beat micro limits. UB has $0.01 - $0.02 games and I think $0.10-$0.20, $0.25-$0.50, and $0.50-1.00 games. Personally, I would feel a lot better about putting in $50 and playing micro than I would about putting in $500 and playing $1-$2... It's true that the micro games have lots of bad players and people chasing everything. Some will argue that it doesn't play like 'real' poker. The fact that people chase stuff and don't fold anything really makes the game easier over time even though you will take more bad beats and people drawing out to you. If played right, you will know when to fold to these people and know when to stay in when they are being crazy and building the pot big. If you can't beat these maniacs, you won't do any better at a higher limit game. Maybe I'm just over cautious but I would do these games until I could prove to myself that I could make a profit before moving up limits. A little self confidence goes a long way to helping you play aggressively (which in my experience lately, is just as important as playing tight) I'm just a beginner too, and I found out $500 (or $1000) can go away pretty quick if you are not playing good poker. Luckily for me, losing the $1000 in the $3-6 and then $2-4 and then $1-2 games didn't upset me too much since I really just started with $50 and made the other $950 in those micro limit games and then eventually moving up to $1-2 and $2-4. Then when I hit $3-6, I got some bad cards and started losing which made me change my game to a much more passive game, which allowed everyone to draw out on me and I continued to lose. I didn't understand it until after I lost everything I made and my initial $50. After analyzing my game I put in another $100 and played some small games and I'm back at about $350. I would have been really bummed out if the the initial amount I put in was $500 instead of $50. Personally, I would go with a lower buy in and then move up gradually as I made enough money to comfortably move up to the next level. Sure it takes a little longer to get to the bigger games but you have a lot less to lose and when you get there, you will feel that much more comfortable with what you are doing... and you just might learn some valuable lessons on the way (I know I have and still am) I'd rather lose $50 and rebuy with another $50 than lose $500 and think about rebuying with another $500. But that's just me... and I tend to be pretty cautious about these things. | ||
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| Re: Advice checklist for 1st time buyin, deaky, 3. Nov 2003 02:52 | ||
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| I have just made my first investment on Pokerstars and have gone about it the same as Palinya. A small initial deposit which I'm not too concerned about losing, to allow me the opportunity to get the feel for playing with real money. The fake money tables can get you into bad habits which can carry over onto the micro-limit tables. The play on these tables can get pretty loose at times but is much more realistic than the Fake money tables. Playing at this low level is allowing me to eliminate any problems I find without affecting my main bankroll. I have downloaded poker tracker and am using the free trial to help eliminate these problems. The only times when the fake money table are realistic are on the later stages of Freeroll tournaments when all the wild players have been eliminated. The free sit-n-go's I have played in tend to have a couple of wild players who go all-in at the beginning with the winner of this first hand bullying for the rest of the time, but these can be beaten by playing tight. The small entry fee sit-n-go's are much more realistic. These are good for playing NL at as the risk to your bankroll is limited. Finally, get Lee Jones, Winning at Low Limit Hold-em if you haven't already got it. This book has helped me enormously and is essential in my opinion. Deaky | ||
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| Re: Advice checklist for 1st time buyin, deaky, 3. Nov 2003 02:55 | ||
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| You could also try Royal Vegas Poker and the Gaming room, both of these give you free money to play with similar to the Casino's. Royal Vegas Poker gives $10, Gaming Room $15. Both are part of the Prima Poker network so you can only get one bonus. Deaky | ||
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| Re: Advice checklist for 1st time buyin, Top Gun-1989, 10. Nov 2003 08:25 | ||
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| Something you might want to invest in is "Turbo Texas Hold'em" recommended by Mike Caro. Price is $89.00. Also ceck out the play on Paradisepoker.com Great on-line room. | ||
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| Re: Advice checklist for 1st time buyin, Caldazar, 3. Nov 2003 00:31 | ||
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| Play money and real money games aren't the same at all. I've played some play money poker before and for the most part, the fun seems to be the thrill in winning a giant pot or getting a monster hand, not playing good poker. Playing good poker is sometime really boring, and who wants to be bored when you're not even playing for real stakes? Tournament poker plays differently than ring games, but again, if it's a play money tournament, it's not a good indicator. As for your initial-buy in, choose an amount you would feel comfortable losing (in case the worst happens) and choose a table limit based on this amount, not the other way around. $500 is plenty for $1/$2, if you're comfortable risking $500. If you can find a lower rake %, of course you want to take it, but you can't just start playing at the higher limit tables for the rake if the quality of your play is not up to snuff. The exception to this is the smaller limits; in general, there's not as much difference in the overall quality of play there. The most important thing is to choose a table limit at which you feel comfortable. When in doubt, err on the side of caution and play cheaply first. Play what you know. If you've been playing limit, play limit first. If you want to dabble in PL or NL, do so sparingly, with small amounts initially, and only if you're comfortable losing your buy-ins (they are quite different games). While I mostly play limit, I occasionally wander over to NL because I find it a bit more exciting, but I play NL for the amusement value, not because I expect to make money (in fact, I'm much worse at NL than limit ring games). Personally, screen names mean nothing to me. I never even notice them; my opponents are just Seat1, Seat2, Seat3, and Seat4 as far as I'm concerned until I start observing and playing. And then they become 'TheManiac', 'Passive', 'Tight/Checkraiser', and 'KeepsYouHonest'. Advice? Nothing you haven't already heard. Pick the right tables, the ones where you're playing weaker competition (if you want to learn from better players, sit there and watch them; no need to give them your chips when you can observe for free). Play tight. Play even tighter against maniacs. Learn from your mistakes. Be patient. Very patient. | ||
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| Re: Advice checklist for 1st time buyin, RonnieB, 3. Nov 2003 04:54 | ||
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| I am a newbie also. I started with the play money and then moved to micro limits on PokerStars. My observations: If you try micro limits like .01/.02 on PokerStars, you will not see a lot of difference between the play money you have been playing. The .05/.10 is a little better and the .25/.50 improves again. You will still see 4 or 5 in the flop with 2 players calling to the river trying to hit their flush or straight. Hands per hour is around 35 because of all the players on multiple tables. I joined pokerschoolonline.com and began learning NL. I have tried the .25/.50 NL game on PokerStars. I had two sessions where I broke even and one where I came out way ahead ($15.00) but it is too early to tell if I can play at this level. You see a lot of trashed being flopped but there are some decent players (based on my ability). If you have not played NL before, this can get real expensive fast but it is a much better game than the limit equivalent. The micro limits can get real slow if you are playing (or at least trying) to play proper poker. You see very few hands and then fold a lot of those. Read Lee Jones book on Low LImit Poker. Read the posts on this forum, there are some excellent discussions. Good luck | ||
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| Re: Advice checklist for 1st time buyin, vest besterly, 3. Nov 2003 11:53 | ||
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| Huge thanks for the advice. I'm thinking I'll likely do a hybrid of my original idea and the micro-game advice some have mentioned. Just cause I stumbled upon a 40% of buyin promo from PokerRoom I feel like I've got to give that a whirl, although they don't offer micro tables. So I figure I'll do the $500 buyin there in order to get max free cash from the promo, but have an understading that I'll only gamble with $200 of it. $200 + the extra promo cash should give me a bit of beathing room for a couple weeks. If I lose it, then I'll cash out the remaining $300 and go to PartyPoker to play the micro games; if I make anything $150 or over, I'll cash out my original $500 and go to PartyPoker too, but play in their 1-2 dollar instead. Assimilating "real" poker is as important to me as making a profit at this stage, so I'll only go to the micro-tables kicking and screaming (perhaps to my own detriment). As far as the odd question about the user name at the table, you guys are probably right in stating that it won't make a difference but I'm gonna give it a try anyway; not a name as obvious as Drunk_newbie but definitely soft. I'll post back if I notice people in the 1-2 dollar playing me different than someone named Texas1947. | ||
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