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Server Time: 8/21/2008 9:36:35 PM PACIFIC |
 Help me beat this game, C.A. Adkins, 2. Nov 2003 14:48 | ||
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| I've been playing in a 10/20 game in my local area. 2/5 blinds with 12-13 players total. Pretty aggressive game as most hands are raised pre-flop. I've played in the game maybe 10 to 12 times and won only three. Here's the situation: I'm playing big suited connectors, and big pairs. Most times even in a raised pot 6 to 8 players will see the flop. Raises have NO VALUE in eliminating players. All kinds of players in the game but most are VERY LOOSE and very aggressive. It seems if I flop the nut flush the board pairs and someone makes a full house with 82o. If I have top two pair someone makes a gut straight on the last card to beat me. I know how to play but it seems I get drawn out on an UNUSUALLY large amount of the time because there are so may draws out there. The problem I have with the game is the pots are so large these people who are drawing and gut shots with bottom pair are probably not playing that poorly because of implied and pot odds. Am I giving too much value to my top two pair or my straight. I almost feel like I need an OMAHA hand. The nuts with a draw to better. Seems like it should be a REALLY juicy game just can't figure out where I'm going wrong. Any suggestions would be appreciated. | ||
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| Re: Help me beat this game, rdale, 2. Nov 2003 19:13 | ||
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| I remember reading this http://www.posev.com/poker/holdem/strategy/preflop-abdul.html and it helped me a bunch with playing against people that will play anytwo and in an aggressive way. The basic scoop as I recall when dealing with your kind of table is to essentially wait for AA, KK, QQ and AKs, punish them for being idiots as much as possible. Seems that this would create a situation where you wait a whole lot and it sucks to have to play that tight, but then at least you are going in with the best of it. Before I found this guide on preflop play I thought I was going in with the best of it, I removed low suited connectors and unsuited face cards, but really I hadn't tightend up enough. Hope it helps you. | ||
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| Re: Help me beat this game, Mark, 2. Nov 2003 20:06 | ||
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| Hi CA you should be able to beat this game by playing tight aggressive. However, your big pairs go down in value and suited connectors go way up in value. preflop, play very tight in ep and early mp. throw away QT and KT and lower hands as you don't want to have to pay multiple bets. Ax suited is very good for this type of game. in late position loosen up, but don't go calling multiple bets with the above hands or 97 type garbage. You want to be starting with a very strong hand, or a hand that will turn into the nuts. T8s, 98s are good cutoff and button hands. Don't go lower than these. on the flop, only draw to the NUTS. K high flush draws will get beaten alot in this game, and Q high draws are garbage. When you do hit a hand like a set or 2P, always charge the maximum to draw. While you will get drawn out on alot, the pots you win will be huge and make up for the times you take a bad beat. Don't draw to str8s when there is a 2 flush. Never slowplay or give free cards, and only show down very strong hands. Bluffing and deception are useless, so don't bother. Play very tight, ABC poker, and you will come out ahead. Mark | ||
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| Re: Help me beat this game, Mark Gregorich, 2. Nov 2003 22:50 | ||
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| If the blinds for a $10-20 game are only $2 and $5, and the game is as loose as you say, then I recommend that you play EXTREMELY tight - you won't get eaten up by the blinds, and will quickly recoup your losses when you do catch a rush. I suspect your main problem in the game is that you are running poorly so far, as 12 sessions isn't necessarily indicative of your true expectation in the game. These very loose games will be somewhat streaky, and following a solid strategy will help you get the money in the long run. With that in mind, realize that big unsuited cards (even AK) aren't worth as much in these types of games, as the winning hand is typically 2 pair or better. Hands that can more easily improve (KQ suited types of hands) play well in loose games. Don't get married to the hand if you flop a pair - its generally a good sign if you're betting and they're calling, but when you get raised, you need to evaluate the situation. I like small pairs in these games - you can pitch them if you don't improve, and you typically are getting 5 or 6 to 1 on your initial call, plus the implied odds for flopping a set. If you miss, you get out cheap. I'm not a big fan of middle suited connectors, as you typically flop a draw with them which may or may not get there; plus, in ultra-loose games you can easily make a flush with your 98 suited and lose to someone's K5 suited flush. I think you may be better off leaving them alone. When you feel you have the best hand, pound it! Charge the maximum for your opponents to draw at you. Also, use the checkraise from early position to help protect your hand. Don't miss bets because you've been running bad and know you'll get called anyway. When your hands do hold up, you'll be getting a good return on them. Hang in there - solid aggressive play will get the money, but it doesn't happen overnight! Mark Gregorich | ||
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| Re: Help me beat this game, LJH, 3. Nov 2003 14:25 | ||
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| CA ADKINS, FORGET BIG CARD S PLAY MEDIIUM AND LARGE SUITED CONNECTORS, AND DO NOT RAISE. LJH | ||
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| Re: Help me beat this game, ncrducati, 3. Nov 2003 14:51 | ||
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| both marks have given excellent advice. you need to play what everyone else isnt playing. | ||
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| Re: Help me beat this game, kennycatkiller, 3. Nov 2003 22:39 | ||
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| Are you saying this is a 10-20 game played 12 or 13-handed? And there is frequent pre-flop raising with 6 to 8 players in most hands? If so, it should be yummy, but you have to play super-tight and be prepared to show down the nuts. | ||
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| Re: Help me beat this game, KevinK, 4. Nov 2003 01:59 | ||
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| Man, I thought I was the only one that suffered the wrath of these players. Raise the pot and everyone calls no matter what. Normally, we all know that these players are what you want in games. However, dealing with people who think K 2 off suit is a decent hand can be somewhat annoying(especially when they hit two pair). With people like them, don't raise too much but enough to somewhat juice the pot. If the flop works in your favor(overpair, two pair, trips, or flush or straight), raise the pot a little or fold if it doesn't. These weaker players will still call the bets you make since they don't often believe being a calling station is considered poor play. I even asked a few fish that eliminated me in tourneys and they proudly told me that they don't care that they got lucky, as long as they win the pot(whereas if I happen to get lucky, I tell them they played right and I got lucky as words of encouragement). That is what is motivating the beginner's play: not that they played it right, but that they won. | ||
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