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Server Time: 11/23/2008 5:52:33 AM PACIFIC |
 Misplayed TT, iceman5, 31. Oct 2003 12:58 | ||
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| I know I misplayed this and would like advice. I am UTG +1 and get dealt pocket 10's. I raised hoping to get people with KT, QT maybe KJ and similar hands to fold. I get 2 LP callers. The flop comes K82 with no draws. Now what? I bet out, one guy calls, the other one folds. Since there are no draws I have to assume that he has a K correct? Thats where I think I screwed up. The turn was a 9 and I fired another bet and he called again. I probably should have check/folded. I forget what the river was but it was no help. I checked , he checked and he had the K. Like I said I probably shouldve check / folded at the turn. What if there WAS a flush draw on the flop? Can I then continue to bet hoping he is calling with a draw or is it best just to let it go? | ||
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| Re: Misplayed TT, Mark, 31. Oct 2003 14:37 | ||
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| Raising pre-flop with TT in ep is a play that depends on the table make-up. You only got 2 callers, so it looks like a good play. I would definately have fired on the flop. On the turn, it really depends on your knowledge of the opponent. I would lean towards firing another bullet, but if you know the player is tight, then checking is okay. At my regular online $5-10 game, some players will call with any ace in that position, and many others will call just to see what you'll do on the turn. I always keep firing at these types of players. If i'm not sure what type of opponent i'm up against, i'll usually fire on the turn anyway. By checking, you give up any chance at the pot. It would be horrible to let an overcard ace or underpair to take the pot on the turn after you check. Also, if your willing to check call the turn, betting is definately a better play. Your really in a bet or fold situation. When the turn gets called and a rag falls, i'm checking the river, and maybe calling, (again depending on the opponent's playing style) Mark | ||
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| Re: Misplayed TT, PairTheBoard, 31. Oct 2003 15:06 | ||
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| I think a big factor in the equation is the fact that you weren't raised on the flop. If he has a King, why doesn't he raise? I had a similar, though somewhat different, situation yesterday. I limped early with KK - don't ask me why - and unfortunately was greeted by only limpers, no raisers before the flop. The flop came AQblank. Well, I did it to myself, I thought. I bet just in case no one had an Ace, figuring I would fold to a raise. I was just called by two players. Now I think I'm surely beat and check the turn. One player checks the other bets and I fold. At the showdown, both players show a pair of Queens. This situation was much worse than yours, and my fold on the turn was probably correct, but still, when they just call on the flop you have to wonder, if they have it why aren't they raising? | ||
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| Re: Misplayed TT, iceman5, 31. Oct 2003 16:01 | ||
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| He didnt raise because he had a K with a bad kicker (a 10 I think?). He probably thought I had KQ or AK. Anyway, I guess I didnt play as badly as I thought originally. | ||
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| Re: Misplayed TT, Mark Gregorich, 31. Oct 2003 17:03 | ||
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| I don't think you played the hand poorly. Raising preflop is good, betting the flop is mandatory. I lean towards firing again on the turn against only one opponent. Generally, an opponent with a king will raise the flop, but some (including myself) won't do this automatically, as by raising with, say, KJ, you put yourself in a spot where the preflop raiser will likely either fold if he can't beat you, or reraise if he can. Thus, you may be able to win more bets with the KJ by calling than by raising, and might save some money when you're behind. Back to the TT hand, I don't mind your bet on the turn. Sure, an opponent is supposed to have a king with this board, but that doesn't mean he does - there's plenty of strange hold'em play these days, so you may as well profit from it wherever you can. Checking the river is good, but I would lean towards calling rather than folding if your opponent bets (you don't want to give up the pot for one bet, unless you're POSITIVE he has you beat). BTW, this is a great board to bluff with - there are no draws, and its very difficult for anyone who can't beat a king to stay in the pot if you raise it. Say you are in the blind holding whatever, and call a late position raiser. I would strongly consider going for a checkraise on the flop when the flop comes K82 or something similar. It doesn't matter what you have - if your opponent doesn't have a king or better, you will likely run him out of the pot. Mark | ||
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| Re: Misplayed TT, iceman5, 31. Oct 2003 17:15 | ||
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| Mark Gregorich said "Generally, an opponent with a king will raise the flop, but some (including myself) won't do this automatically, as by raising with, say, KJ, you put yourself in a spot where the preflop raiser will likely either fold if he can't beat you, or reraise if he can" Mark, if I had AK and he raised mo on the flop (which he didnt do here), why not wait until the turn and check raise him instead of reraising the flop? Dont I get more out of him that way? | ||
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| Re: Misplayed TT, Mark Gregorich, 1. Nov 2003 21:23 | ||
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| on 31. Oct 2003 17:15 iceman5 wrote: > Mark Gregorich said "Generally, an opponent with a king will raise the flop, but some > (including myself) won't do this automatically, as by raising with, say, KJ, you put > yourself in a spot where the preflop raiser will likely either fold if he can't beat you, > or reraise if he can" > Mark, if I had AK and he raised mo on the flop (which he didnt do here), why not wait > until the turn and check raise him instead of reraising the flop? Dont I get more out of > him that way? Yes, as long as he "remembers" to bet the turn. Most players who raise the flop will automatically follow through on the turn, but some will check lots of marginal hands (such as middle pair or even a weak king) here, fearing a check raise. Against players who I feel are capable of this play, I will generally reraise the flop and then lead the turn. Against most players, though, I agree with you that going for the checkraise on the turn is the best option. Mark | ||
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