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Server Time: 10/11/2008 12:55:06 PM PACIFIC |
 Position vs. holdings, Aisthesis, 31. Oct 2003 01:36 | ||
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| Having been taken to task on a recent post about even considering limping UTG with KJo and following the discussion of AXs, in which the general consensus seems to revolve largely around position, I just wondered what better players than myself think about just how important these two factors are relative to one another. Is UTG really so horrible that anything worse than, say, AJs is just out of the question? If so, how about pairs lower than JJ? Also, how fast do the criteria for bettable hands go down? I mean, I would already say that UTG+1 is middle position, although certainly weak MP. And button -2 I would view as LP, although weak LP. Regrettably, my database is still too small to really say much, but I'll be interested to check and see how my profits and losses look if I can sort it by position rather than holdings. Any comments on the relative importance of these two factors would be most appreciated in any case. | ||
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| Re: Position vs. holdings, shorn, 31. Oct 2003 05:53 | ||
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| Second to position in determining what to play where on the table is the type of game you are in. If the game is passive, then the types of hands you can play in EP expand; if the game is aggressive, it shrinks. Similarly if the game is loose, it increases the number of different TYPEs of hand you can play; if it is tight it, it decreases it (high cards and high pairs only...oh, and BTW, look for a softer game). What all this means is that poker is a situational and not a "what cards do I hold" type of game. The type of game that you are in and your position (including your relative position to other players) are the components to each situation and must be deciding factors on whether to enter a pot or not. One important thing to remember is that it is play after the flop that is most important. The best players out there play a lot of marginal hands pre-flop, but are masters of maximizing return by outplaying their opponents later in the hand (and a big part of this outplaying has to do with knowing when to fold). Good luck. Steve | ||
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| Re: Position vs. holdings, Aisthesis, 31. Oct 2003 10:33 | ||
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| Thanks, very informative! When you put the TYPEs in caps, I'm assuming you're talking about pairs and suited connectors (? those are really the only pre-flop hand types I can think of over and above high cards). So at a loose sufficiently loose table that's not overly aggressive pre-flop anyway, one might consider things like 88 or 78s even in EP? Your comments regarding top players I think lead to another factor, which I'm beginning to think is a big one. One might call it the "read factor." I'm assuming I'm not the only one who, after sitting at a table for a little while, can find my read on the table anywhere between: 1) "I've got this table figured out." and 2) "I'm pretty much clueless as to why these people are doing what they're doing." Presumably the top player almost always has a really good read, hence the ability to play lesser hands. By the same token, the clueless feeling should probably lead to playing only the best hands and, if it doesn't change, taking a break or changing tables. | ||
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| Re: Position vs. holdings, Blade, 31. Oct 2003 08:24 | ||
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| Example: After running a silumation of 40million hands with 22 from all positions and various table types, the button had a EV of 5times that of UTG. All other variables held constant. | ||
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| Re: Position vs. holdings, Aisthesis, 31. Oct 2003 10:07 | ||
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| Wow! very interesting statistic on a huge set of data... | ||
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| Re: Position vs. holdings, ncrducati, 3. Nov 2003 14:54 | ||
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| all depends on the game and situation. | ||
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