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Server Time: 11/23/2008 6:00:48 AM PACIFIC |
 Is checking down a weak or smart play!!!!, Eman, 29. Oct 2003 05:52 | ||
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| I know there has been alot of posts advocating the need to bet the river. But sometimes I feel that checking down is the right play. Im no expert and I would sure like some advice and tips on this. For example. Lets say in a NL tourney, average stack, average table, no maniacs, nothing out of the norm, you get dealt AJs on the button. EP calls next player MP raises and you just call, SB & BB both fold EP calls, FLop is three way. Flop comes K, J, x EP checks, MP bets out (not a signifcant amount), You raise, EP folds, and MP calls. Turn is a rag, He bets out again. and you call, River is another Rag, He checks. Do you check it down or Bet? I no being aggressive will usually win the pot. But im certain he'll call with top pair good kicker on Rag board. Anyway, I checked too and he had K10 and won the pot. Some other scenarios are when there is a very scary board, with a third flush card or straight coming up on the river. You hold a not so great hand like QJ with a board of 4,10,9 , 6 , J with the river making three flush cards and possible straight. Your last to act and the player has called your bets to the river. He then checks to you, do you check it down or bet? I know it depends on your read and your opponent. If you do suspect he made his hand but you arent positive, do you risk the chance of betting and getting raised? | ||
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| Re: Is checking down a weak or smart play!!!!, Snorbolus, 29. Oct 2003 06:15 | ||
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| I don't think that you should have gone to the river in the first place. What did you think he had when he bet the turn? Snorbolus on 29. Oct 2003 05:52 Eman wrote: > I know there has been alot of posts advocating the need to bet the river. But > sometimes I feel that checking down is the right play. Im no expert and I would > sure like some advice and tips on this. For example. Lets say in a NL tourney, > average stack, average table, no maniacs, nothing out of the norm, you get dealt > AJs on the button. > EP calls next player MP raises and you just call, SB & BB both fold EP calls, > FLop is three way. > Flop comes K, J, x > EP checks, MP bets out (not a signifcant amount), You raise, EP folds, and MP > calls. > Turn is a rag, He bets out again. and you call, > River is another Rag, He checks. > Do you check it down or Bet? I no being aggressive will usually win the pot. > But im certain he'll call with top pair good kicker on Rag board. Anyway, I > checked too and he had K10 and won the pot. > > Some other scenarios are when there is a very scary board, with a third flush > card or straight coming up on the river. You hold a not so great hand like QJ > with a board of 4,10,9 , 6 , J with the river making three flush cards and > possible straight. Your last to act and the player has called your bets to the > river. He then checks to you, do you check it down or bet? > > I know it depends on your read and your opponent. If you do suspect he made > his hand but you arent positive, do you risk the chance of betting and getting > raised? | ||
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| Re: Is checking down a weak or smart play!!!!, TAKEDOWN, 29. Oct 2003 06:24 | ||
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| I'm no expert by far, but it seems to me if you are last to act and your opponent checked, then I would bet. I know if I made my hand on the river I would not be checking for fear that the round would be checked down and I would loose a possible call. I would consider checking if my opponent had been real aggressive the previous rounds but most of the time I would bet, It is likely your opponent did not make his hand if you're checked to on the river. | ||
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| Re: Is checking down a weak or smart play!!!!, Kymmer, 29. Oct 2003 06:58 | ||
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| My approach is to evaluate the expectation - if I feel that there is a positive expectation that makes it favorable to bet in those instances when I have 2nd best hand (if I have 3rd best in a 3 way - I have most likely folded on the turn if I didn't improve) - pot size, opponents' patterns, etc. - then I will bet out if they check. If there is a negative expectation - those times when you just can't get a read and your hand is really vulnerable, I will check. I've adopted the philosophy that a bet saved is just as valuable as a bet won. | ||
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| Re: Is checking down a weak or smart play!!!!, shorn, 29. Oct 2003 07:36 | ||
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| In regards to the specific NL hand, you shouldn't have seen the river. In fact, the flop raise was marginal at best. No way I would call the turn there with second pair. In general, I think it is OK to check the river when the opponent only needs one card to beat your hand (say 4 to a str8 or flush on the board). The reason that I say this is that if you bet the sacre card, only bad things happen: he raises and you either have to fold or pay two bets to see his winner, or he folds and you win nothing more. You can't be called in this instance with a hand that you can beat. Mostly, you need to base your decision on the board texture and how the scare hand got there. Were there two flush cards on the flop or was it runner runner. Same with the str8. I am much more apt to bet the river when the board looks like the other player needed runner runner to get there. Over time, you will gain enough feel from experience to determine when are the correct times to value bet the river and when they are foolish. That experience will cost you some bets short run, but it will be well worth it long run. Hope this helps. Steve | ||
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| Re: Is checking down a weak or smart play!!!!, noiseboy, 29. Oct 2003 09:11 | ||
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| It's a tricky thing, when to bet the river. I don't have much good advice on this; however, you should be aware that an aggressive player like me will often see a river check when a scare card has hit as an invitation to steal. If there is a one card str8 or flush out there and especially when there aren't many players in the pot, I will sometimes try to take the pot with nothing. Sometimes I run into a hand, but a lot of times I get better hands to fold as it puts the other player/s to a really tough decision. Of course, you don't have to worry as much about thievery when the pot is multi-handed. | ||
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| Re: Is checking down a weak or smart play!!!!, noiseboy, 29. Oct 2003 09:16 | ||
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| BTW, the above mostly applies to NL. In limit hold'em you don't have to worry as much about the "invitation to steal" issue because you can just call it down if you have any doubts about the legitimacy of the bet. After all, the pot is likely a decent size by the river and you don't want to make a catastrophic fold. This is all of a general nature, in the specific instance of the NL hand you mentioned, I would have been through with 2nd pair before the river, as soon as anyone makes or calls a decent bet, I probably have to put them on top pair. After that, I'm either on a pure bluff if I continue which I might try against a weak player, or I'm just trying to get to showdown as cheaply as possible and folding to any significant aggression. | ||
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