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Server Time: 9/5/2008 1:30:22 AM PACIFIC |
 Stealing blinds, iceman5, 28. Oct 2003 16:29 | ||
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| Other than knowing the individual player, is there any way to tell if a raise from the button is a steal or not? It seems that whenever Im the BB and the button raises, he has a real hand and I overplay trying to defend. For instance the button raises, I call with K9 thinking its a steal. An ace comes on the flop and he bets out. I usually dont fold which is usually a mistake. I would never play this way if it wasnt for the possible steal attempt. Or maybe I shoudl reraise if I thought it was a steal, but then Im in even more trouble if its not. | ||
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| Re: Stealing blinds, Schuster, 28. Oct 2003 22:34 | ||
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| Hi iceman. There's really no good way to tell if it's a steal or a legitimate hand against most players. I know that if I get AA on the puck and everyone folds, I'm still going to raise. If I don't raise with my real hands, how am I going to respect on my steals? If you have a reasonable hand, a decent strategy is to 3 bet it and bet the flop. A hand that qualifies as "decent" depends on how much your opponent has been stealing, so you should take note of his habits. It could be as low as ace-rag. On your example, K9o is a reasonable hand to defend the blind with. In this particular case, if I thought king high was the best hand, I would choose to bet out on the flop and see how my opponent reacted. Defending blinds is a tough part of hold'em, as it requires a lot of feel and no real preset answer. My best suggestion would be to post some blind defense hands here and see what others thought of your play. We have some great players here willing to comment on hands, and you should defininately utilize that opportunity. Good luck iceman. Lee | ||
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| Re: Stealing blinds, Mark Barnett II, 29. Oct 2003 09:09 | ||
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| ok just a question here how bad a play is it to only defend your blinds against a possible steal attempt *raised* with hands that could call a raise normally? obviously at some point you have to defend but im saying how bad if you know nothing about your opponent and how he plays, as in you are purely guessing if he is on a steal or not. my question stems from something i think i have read that said over the lifetime of a poker player you will lose money in the blinds | ||
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| Re: Stealing blinds, Schuster, 29. Oct 2003 09:34 | ||
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| Let me make sure I got this. You are saying that you would only defend with hands that could call a legitimate raise, right? I think you're giving up too much there. Would you muck KJo to a steal raise? I certainly wouldn't, but against an EP raiser, it's an easy fold. You're getting good odds to see a flop. One thing mentioned here a while ago was that you should defend with more hands if your opponent is a poor postflop player, and defend less if the opponent is good. There really isn't any set answers on blind defense, post some hands and you'll surely get some replies. Lee | ||
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| Re: Stealing blinds, Mark Barnett II, 29. Oct 2003 09:57 | ||
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| i think i may be asking questions that are too generalized for an answer and so i get people either upset or disgusted with my questions. what im saying is you are a new player *not brand new but still someone who might want this question answered* you sit down at a table, you are totally clueless as to how anyone plays, it takes awhile for you to get a read on other players as you are new and have tons of things running through your head that dont come naturally yet. lets use your example your in the BB with KJo folded to the cutoff or the button and its raised, my question would be how much expectation would you lose if you just folded? *assume SB folds* obviously having another player in the pot makes a huge difference as pot odds and implied odds go up. my thinking is you have bad position throughout what kind of flop do you want thats gonna make you any kind of money that doesnt risk losing more? again as in my check raise question from a few days ago, i am trying to help new players get a feel of where to start in the process. the largest varible in the game is how others play, until you can get some sort of read on the other players im trying to come up with some basic guidelines that wont get a player in too much trouble. maybe an analogy that gives idea RL and stop signs when your little and you dont know much about how the world works someone tells you the basic rules of a stop sign, so you always stop you look both ways and then you go, as you get older you learn more info and sometimes you dont come to a complete stop, sometimes you look one way ahead of time and dont recheck and whatnot *and yes sometimes you still get run over* im trying to get others to post their basic stop sign rules and i post mine too. | ||
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| Re: Stealing blinds, Schuster, 29. Oct 2003 10:10 | ||
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| The stop sign analogy helped out. And I'm not upset or disgusted, I just want to give a good answer and it's tough because there are a lot of variables. For a new player, it's possible that he would have a higher expectation by folding than by playing, since he may play the hand poorly and lose himself money. But, probably not very likely if they have been reading up and such. For a new player, I guess you could say that you can call with any hand you would call with in late position, and play the flop from there. You're getting 3.5 to 1 in that spot to the flop and the raiser could have a wide variety of hands. If you miss the flop, just let it go. I'd say that if they just folded, they are probably costing themselves about 20% of a small bet worth of expectation, give or take a little, assuming their play after the flop wasn't too bad. But, those little edges add up so it's hard to advise a fold in that spot. Lee | ||
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| Re: Stealing blinds, Mark Barnett II, 29. Oct 2003 11:10 | ||
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| exactly what i was after, a best guess answer and the logic behind the answer. as a new player you can make a choice, you can fold until you get more information *or just feel more comfortable in that situation* and yes your losing a bit of expectation but you also avoid some serious traps. random dream, get enough info on the site that someone brand new to the game *say a spouse* could come here read posts and basically any and all situations would be covered *obviously with variables like types of people in the hand and such also discussed* i have a pretty substantial poker library but havent found my holy grail yet *that book i would just say to a new player should be read first* | ||
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