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Server Time: 11/20/2009 5:41:45 PM PACIFIC |
 When to muck a good (GREAT) hand?, Rick B., 27. Oct 2003 18:43 | ||
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| I play $2/4 "No Fold'em Hold'em". Of late I've really have become snake-bite, I Bet, Rise, and Call, with a very good hand, just to see a better one.. My med high str, gets beat by one, the flushes (king high) get beat by the ace. Full houses get flipped, my pocket pr, become 2pr, then 3pr, and then get beat by a set. When do you muck these hands and save the money? My starting standards are Phil's top ten (tight enough not to get into trouble), but its hard to run off a table of maniacs. Any ideas? Thanks, R.B. | ||
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| Re: When to muck a good (GREAT) hand?, ReMMy, 27. Oct 2003 19:20 | ||
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| You can't play Phil's top ten starting hand requirements in low limit holdem, you can't even really play them in any game, they will keep you from losing a lot of money, but you may still lose. You need to think about what people are doing and why. In no fold em, Axs can be a huge money maker. so can KQs etc etc... Start loosening up when your on or near the button, especially w/ suited connectors and small pairs. | ||
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| Re: When to muck a good (GREAT) hand?, Rick B., 27. Oct 2003 20:30 | ||
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| You make it sound like any 2 cards can win. Just by playing more hands, one would be bound to win more,right? Maybe I didn't present the problem clearly. What I'm asking is when do I take a good hand and not call with it. Example, Queen high flush, 10 high str. 2 pr., 22/88, set of 333's, 1 pr of 99's. I'm sure there are other examples of good ,but not good enough to win hands. | ||
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| Re: When to muck a good (GREAT) hand?, PairTheBoard, 27. Oct 2003 21:30 | ||
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| ReMMy's advice is correct imo. But I think you probably could earn at that game if you played nothing but top 10 hands. You don't say how long you've been playing. We all have bad streaks where nothing seems to go right and our best hands all turn into worse case scenarios. When that is happenning we all lose money. But the time will sneak up on you when your luck runs just the opposite and you are on the winning end of those scenarios. What you'll discover is that when that happens your inexperienced opponents will get way overexcited with their good hands and reraise-cap turns and rivers when they should slow down. Because of this type of play it is very hard to get away from many of your strongest hands. The best you can often do is decide it is time to slow down and go into check call mode. Don't get overexcited with nonnut hands in multiway pots. Let your opponents do this. | ||
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| Re: When to muck a good (GREAT) hand?, shorn, 28. Oct 2003 06:45 | ||
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| We all run in to this problem every time we sit down for a session that lasts a while. The key to deciding when to throw a way a good/great/but not the nuts hand hinges on a few things. First, what is the texture of the board relative to your hand? If the board is 789T2 and you hold a 6, then the str8 you have really isn't all that strong. Unless the pot is enormous (say more than 15 bets), if there is a bet and a caller already, you can safely assume that someone is holding a Jack and let it go. If it is heads up, you might have to grit your teeth and call because you never want to make a huge error in folding the winning hand for a big pot. Similarly, if you hold the nut str8, but the river has brought the flush card and people get interested, then you might have to lay it down. This is one of those things that comes with experience. I follow a general rule on the end. I ask myself how many cards does it take to beat me? If the bettor needs both of his hole cards to beat me, then generally it is an automatic call (unless my hand is third or fourth best and the pot is small). If the bettor needs one card only to beat me (as in the str8 example), then I find it easier to fold. One final note. At the 2/4 limit, it is much more rare to run into players that will bluff on the end (by betting out or raising) and represent a hand they don't have. I am not saying there aren't any savvy 2/4 players out there; rather, in most cases when you flip up the cards, you need a pretty good hand to win. So, take a good long hard look at the board and recall how the hand played out before you throw that last chip in. Good luck. Steve | ||
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| Re: When to muck a good (GREAT) hand?, Rick B., 28. Oct 2003 16:26 | ||
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| Thanks Steve, You, understood, what I was saying. I like the question about "How many cards will it take to beat me?" That maybe the key, along with a good Starting Standard I might be able to avoid some of the bad beats I've had lately. Thanks, Rick | ||
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| Re: When to muck a good (GREAT) hand?, Phish, 29. Oct 2003 09:25 | ||
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| on 28. Oct 2003 16:26 Rick B. wrote: > Thanks Steve, > You, understood, what I was saying. > I like the question about "How many cards will it take to beat me?" > That maybe the key, along with a good Starting Standard I might be able to avoid some of > the bad beats I've had lately. > Winning at poker means more than just saving money on your losers, which is what you seem to be focusing on. It means keeping your winners (obviously). And just playing Helmuth's top 10 hands is probably a fundamentally flawed strategy. First of all, though I've not read his book, I've read elsewhere that his top 10 hands are top 10 only in a heads-up situation. Values of starting hands change radically between heads-up vs. no-foldem holdem full games. Some hands in his top 10 (AJ offsuit if it's there) are probably not profitable, whereas hands like 98 suited (which I'm sure would not be in his top 10) probably are. My advice to you: ditch the Helmuth book and get Lee Jones' Low Limit Holdem Book. | ||
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| Re: When to muck a good (GREAT) hand?, Rick B., 29. Oct 2003 16:09 | ||
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| Well at least you admit to not reading Phil's book. Jones (1st & 2nd Editions) is good, Krieger & Burton are very good, but 1 page does not make a book. The intent of these books are not the same. Their subjects are almost the same, but their stated goals are different. Rick | ||
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