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Server Time: 11/20/2009 8:52:38 PM PACIFIC |
 Tips on reading players, blisterfoot, 27. Oct 2003 15:09 | ||
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| I wonder if anyone has some practical suggestions for how to start reading the other players at the table -- I am NOT talking about physical tells, etc., but more about reading people's playing/betting style, etc. I try to pay attention to how people play, but find it very difficult to remember/focus on what everyone's doing, particularly at the fast pace of an online or casino game (as opposed to my slower home game). I know that will improve with experience, but are there any practical suggestions for improving my game in this area? For example, what I mean is that I am currently able to pay attention to what types of hands someone PFR with, whether they check-raise alot, etc. But after 2-3 players showdown a hand, I find it really difficult to see what they both were holding, then remember/reconstruct how they each bet their hand at the different stages of betting, and then think about or draw some conclusions from that information, all within the the few seconds I have before I need to start paying attention to the next hand. How do good players do that? Do you start out by trying to focus on the play of just one or two players at the table, so you're not overwhelmed? Do you use any memory tricks, pnemonics, or that kind of thing? I'm a pretty bright guy, I feel like I should be finding this easier.... Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! | ||
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| Re: Tips on reading players, modestmice, 27. Oct 2003 15:18 | ||
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| wow, really good question. i have no idea, i just do it naturally. this would make a great article by Barry or Roy though, thats for sure... | ||
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| Re: Tips on reading players, Calypso, 27. Oct 2003 15:54 | ||
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| Read a Basic primer to reading hands in holdem by Sudhir K. Padmanabhan. | ||
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| Re: Tips on reading players, deaky, 31. Oct 2003 03:01 | ||
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| You can find the mentioned primer on the twoplustwo website. The direct link to the primer is http://www.twoplustwo.com/skp1.html Deaky | ||
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| Re: Tips on reading players, MozMan, 27. Oct 2003 16:49 | ||
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| Nah, generally in that area I do it by feel. So much of the game has become second-nature that there is less to focus on now, so it's easier to watch the players without spreading myself thin, or having to really focus all the time. While I still apply that kind of focus when I'm tangling with someone directly, basically, in this area, I don't 'try' to catch everything every player does anymore, I just try to form impressions based on their behavior. Now, this works pretty well most of the time, but in unusual situations, it can lead you astray. Here's an example: On Sunday, I was playing 6/12 at my B&M and the guy 3 seats to my left kept raising my BBs. Almost every time I was in the BB, he would raise. Now, even though I noticed that each time he raised my BB, he was holding a high pocket pair, AK or AQ, I still began to 'feel' him as a loose-aggressive player because it was my blinds he was raising. I guess my points are these: 1) I didn't have to really focus on this guy to get this kind of basic read on him, but 2) I did have to slow down and understand that in this case my read was a little off (because I was frustrated about not being able to play any blinds), so you have to be able to compensate when that happens. Anyhoo, I hope this made some kind of sense. :) -Moz "That's excellent. We knew you'd agree. The companies will be very pleased." | ||
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| Re: Tips on reading players, ManicStarSeed, 27. Oct 2003 17:10 | ||
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| I am only a beginner, so...what do I really know, but there are some things you can do. Pay attention. Simple attention. Don't go to "sleep" The other night, during a toruny there was this guy that would ALWAYS raise when I was in the big blind. It was not personal. He had no read on me. He simply raiseed when he was in the cutoff, religously. The first time I noticed and thought, "either blind steal or a good hand," I had crap so I folded. Next time I thought "is this going to be a habit or does he really have something"...Folded. The third time, I thought "Blind steal or good hand. This fella makes it a point to raise in that position relative to the blind, good hand or not" After 3 or four rounds, noticing the behavior, i realized that he would do this when he was in the cutoff and the cutoff-1 position. I had the informationI needed to get agressive on a few of my blinds and took him for some chips. I Called his raise, bet/Reraise on flop, bet/reraise on turn, bet on river. Position helped. Bu showing agression in the front, he put me on a made hand. He folded and didn't last too long after that. Point is, as long as you are paying general attention and your mind is not wandering (sleeping). You are bound to pick up on what the mediocre players are doing at one level or another. Mss | ||
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| Re: Tips on reading players, Robert M, 27. Oct 2003 18:11 | ||
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| I think the first thing is to determine your opponents playing style. I have noticed that maniacs raise when they should call, and call when they should fold. Lookout for the reraise, if they do it on the turn and you have a top 2 or 3 hand and the pot merits it, then call. If they dont bet on the river, or dont reraise, you probably have them where you want them. Always beware of a reraise form the tight player. This should set off warning signals obviously. Personally, I like to let the tight player dictate the betting unless I have top hand or they are limping. If there is a palyer who is aggressive and you are not sure, or he/she has been inconsistent with his/her betting style, then be extra careful. If you can't get a read on someone after 20-30 hands, then they are probably advanced and may already have you read (in my opinion). Of course if you have a good hand and the pot warrants it, go for it, and dont forget to raise out those gutshot straight draws. Straights are rarely made on the flop. Just my 2 cents. If any more seasoned veterans wish to correct any of my points please do so. -----------------Robert M | ||
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| Re: Tips on reading players, Flatout_Mainiac, 27. Oct 2003 18:25 | ||
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| What I do....especially early at a table when I don't know anyone is I play a game with myself in when I am not in a hand (I always do it in a hand) in that I try to guess what everyone has and I try to guess what their next play is before they make the play. First, it gets me into the texture of the table and second it helps me get a general read on a player. If I guessed wrong or i'm surprised by a certain play based on his shown card or if it is a hand that gives great information on a players style I try to think about why a player played it that way and what other situations would he play it the same way. Other than that, I just try to put myself in my opponent's seat and try to think about what cards I would be holding to play a hand a certain way. | ||
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| Re: Tips on reading players, Aisthesis, 27. Oct 2003 21:30 | ||
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| I like Maniac's strategy, basically just saying to oneself, "Ah, there's the K pair", "There's the flush draw," etc. and correcting one's hypotheses as play proceeds. A few additions: The maniacs at the table are usually noticeable very quickly, and it's REALLY important to get a read on what they're doing since whenever you play against them, it's going to be for a really big pot. So if they ever show their cards, I try to be sure to look at those first. One can of course also judge by trying to keep track of how often and in what situations they go all-in, raise enormously, etc. I also try to keep rough tabs on how often various people are limping in pre-flop. If it seems like they're in for almost every flop, they're probably keeping a lot of hands they shouldn't be. In both of these cases, however, if you don't actually see the cards, you have to be a little cautious, as people can certainly also just be getting more than an average number of playable hands. It's obviously a lot to go into memory, but I think Maniac's suggestion makes it fairly doable. If you're always making your own assumptions about what people are betting on, then it plays back in your mind fairly easily... You think, "Oh, yeah, that was the guy who was claiming the A pair a few hands ago when he actually didn't have anything..." | ||
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| Re: Tips on reading players, Flatout_Mainiac, 28. Oct 2003 08:35 | ||
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| As a little follow-up to what I do is that I just make one or two mental notes about a player and not a long list of note (unless i play with that player alot). For example, I'll notice that a guy called down the winning hand, not the abosolute nuts, but a very strong hand that should be played fast. Then I notice that he rarely goes to showdown, plays about as many hands that I do and the only time in the last hour and a half I say a raise from him was when he made the ace high flush. Now I wouldn't memorize every particular play this guy made, I would just make a mental note that if this guy is in the hand at the river an alarm would go off in my head that I better be careful if I don't have the nuts because there is a very good chance he has them. | ||
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| Re: Tips on reading players, Jack King Off, 27. Oct 2003 22:23 | ||
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| You mentioned that you felt overwhelmed when trying to study and remember the actions of everyone at the table. What you said at the end of your post is probably the best way to do it. Start by just studying one person at a time, it's probably best to start studying the person who you think that you lose the majority of your pots to. Then you will be able to beat that person more consistently and save yourself some money aswell. Mike Caro has some amazing stuff on reading people. http://www.poker1.com/mcu/mculib_lectures.asp Read over the first lecture and I think that you will find it very helpful. | ||
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| THANKS EVERYONE!, blisterfoot, 30. Oct 2003 19:07 | ||
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| I really appreciate the suggestions | ||
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