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Server Time: 11/23/2008 4:27:55 AM PACIFIC |
 SnG Question, Kymmer, 27. Oct 2003 09:08 | ||
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| I have recently ventured into the limit SnG - I've played one 5+ .50, three 5+1 and one $10 + 1, I've had one 2nd place, one third, and two fourth places. All in all, my confidence at these tourneys is growing. Where I begin to fall apart is in the latter stages of play - I've tried to apply some of the concepts from Sklansky's tournament books such as the Gap Concept - which really helps in the earlier stages. My trouble is in gaining enough chips to be able to meet shorthanded play head on at the end stages of the game. Any tips would be appreciated. Plus, I'd like an opinion on a losing play I made in my last SnG - there were 4 of us left - I was UTG and one off the BB and very short stacked - I'd either be all in on a call here or forced all in on the BB next hand. I had J3 suited - I thought of Sklansky's strategy in this situation of the choice between making a bad call now on the J3 vs. bad bet 'tomorrow' on a random hand. I chose to make the bad call now and was busted out. Would appreciate any and all thoughts on this play - Thank you! | ||
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| Re: SnG Question, gary ford, 27. Oct 2003 10:18 | ||
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| on 27. Oct 2003 09:08 Kymmer wrote: > I have recently ventured into the limit SnG - I've played one 5+ .50, three 5+1 > and one $10 + 1, I've had one 2nd place, one third, and two fourth places. All > in all, my confidence at these tourneys is growing. Where I begin to fall apart > is in the latter stages of play - I've tried to apply some of the concepts from > Sklansky's tournament books such as the Gap Concept - which really helps in the > earlier stages. My trouble is in gaining enough chips to be able to meet > shorthanded play head on at the end stages of the game. Any tips would be > appreciated. > > Plus, I'd like an opinion on a losing play I made in my last SnG - there were 4 > of us left - I was UTG and one off the BB and very short stacked - I'd either be > all in on a call here or forced all in on the BB next hand. I had J3 suited - I > thought of Sklansky's strategy in this situation of the choice between making a > bad call now on the J3 vs. bad bet 'tomorrow' on a random hand. I chose to make > the bad call now and was busted out. Would appreciate any and all thoughts on > this play - Thank you! HI Kymmer---When you get short stacked late in the tournament you often are confronted with a now or later decision on a marginal hand. Survival is the # 1 priority. The longer you can delay a weak all-in,the more likely someone will bust and you'll move up by default. This is especially critical, when you are on the bubble (4th). Since high cards are more valuable short handed, J3 is pretty much a random hand. I would wait, especially if it appears someone might get knocked out on this deal. Your next hand might be 7-2 or AA, but should be at least as good as J3. Once you get to 5 players ---1/2 the original field-- , you are in change gears short- handed strategy. Draws are death. Any A is playable and heads up good for a raise or even an all in. Some say any K is playable and sometimes thats true, depending on the opponents From here on in its a crap shoot but you CAN be the best shooter if you know the odds. Playing tight will almost always get you to the last 5, but from there on its a different game. Always keep your eyes on #3, where the money begins--not that much difference between 1st and 3rd. You will often be short-stacked this way so your play of short stacks will be the key. Good luck---Gary | ||
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| Re: SnG Question, gary ford, 27. Oct 2003 10:21 | ||
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| I reread your post---the strategy i outlined applys more to NL and PL than limit, but the principles are similar G | ||
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| Re: SnG Question, LKP, 27. Oct 2003 13:19 | ||
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| I assume your talking about limit online tourneys. I find that the late stages in a limit online tourney is quite difficult for me as well. As the blinds escalate, the game almost mimics No Limit in that one hand can make or break you. My general strategy: 1. Mold your table image in the beginning. Play super tight and super aggressive. If you bet, bet, bet, bet, and show down a killer hand, people will notice. They will start to realize that you go for the throat when you have a good hand. When you fold in the middle of a pot, people will notice. They will think that you are easily bullied, which means that they think you're NOT going to do something like bluff them. As the blinds escalate, you can get much more aggressive on your betting. Hopefully, people have begun to think that you don't jam the pot with anything less than the nuts. They'll be more inclined to fold to you and not try to bluff you when you bet. They'll also hopefully think by now that when you don't fold, you're not scared. They might try to represent a bluff when a scare card pops up, but if you just keep calling and raising and betting, they'll remember that you don't mess around when a scare card pops up. The disadvantage to this is that people will be more inclined to bluff you, but you can bluff them by going back to raising them, hoping that they realize their bluff won't work. However, the caveat is that sometimes you will be beat. That's where it's really important to also keep this in mind: 2. Pay attention! It's really easy just to click the autofold on your 72o and go back to watchng TV or checking your Email. But pay attention to everything. Watch to see what people raise with. See if anybody likes to checkraise. See how people play poor kickers, both in calling the big blind and in their play after they may flop top pair. For instance, one thing I see a lot of is people who will jam the pot when the board is A K 10, when they A 4. See if they repeatedly call the big blind with drawing hands, and see how they play on the draw. See if people will continue shoveling money in on a low or medium pair. See what people will do when they have only two overcards. See if people like to limp around on the first two betting rounds, but love to jam the pot when the bets double after 4th st. See if anybody likes to slowplay. See if anyone likes to just limp in with a monster like AA or KK. That's a pretty long list of stuff to look for, and you'll really only get to KNOW how people have acted when they show down. But if you pay real diligent attention to every detail, you will begin to get the feel for how a player plays as well as how they react in certain instances. Another really good thing to watch for is the TIME in which a player takes to make a decision. For instance, when a lot of players have the auto-bet button clicked, watch out! Other people use this to bluff. Some people may take a long time to make a decision, trying to slowplay and feign weakness. Sometimes though people are just honestly thinking about what to do. Also, a lot of players will auto-fold whenever they have a bad hand. But some players will not click the autofold button when they are in late position or especially on the small blind. This lets you know that they at least understand position play. 3. It's also important to realize that the hands increase in value drastically. As the blinds get higher, heads-up play is much more prevalent. So in those instances, it might be a good idea to lead off a raise with something like 88. That would be horrible play in a ring game, but here you have the higher likelihood that you will be heads-up, not to mention the smaller possibility that a better hand is out there. Thus, pocket pairs are much better hands. Aces become much more valuable as well. I would probably lead off a raise with an ace with any kicker. Two high cards are much more valuable. JQ might not be a hand to raise with in a full-handed game, but when it's just a few people, I would. 4. It's also important to understand people's chip stacks and how that will relate to their play. Most short stacks won't be any less selective about what they play with, but when they put money in, they will not be bluffed. Short stacks may be also easier to steal blinds from positionally, like when the short stack is the big blind and the small blind raises. Or when the button raises. I also generally like to avoid family pots unless I have an unusually good hand. I prefer to let the other players duke it out and eliminate each other. This would be especially true when there are only 4 players left in a SnG. Well, there's a novel for you. Hope that helps. | ||
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| Re: Thanks guys! SnG Question, Kymmer, 27. Oct 2003 17:26 | ||
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| Thanks for the info - very helpful! | ||
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| Re: SnG Question, Jav, 30. Oct 2003 15:59 | ||
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| In that particular situation I think you should wait for the next hand. Two good things can happen. One, someone else might be knocked out in one hand, which would assure you of moving up one spot. Two, you might get a better hand. Since you only have enough money to call the BB, and not raise, you get no benefit by playing any hand that is mediocre. If you could have open-raised, then you might be able to make an arguement for doing so since you have a chance at winning the pot right then. But when looking for that last hand to make a stand with, I don't like it to contain any very small cards (2,3,4,5). Unless you have an Ace or King, two suited cards, to connectors, any pair, etc I would just wait until I was blinded out in that situation. | ||
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