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Server Time: 10/15/2008 4:13:30 PM PACIFIC |
 Mad at your chips, Angel, 24. Oct 2003 21:34 | ||
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| I was playing $40/$80 at the Commerce yesterday and I saw a play that I see frequently that has always confused me to no end. While I don't recall the board I do remember that the hand was heads up and player A bet the flop Player B raised and A 3-bet. Turn brought a check-bet-raise-call. River brought a bet-raise-reraise-reraise-fold. Why would you ever make it 3-bets heads-up if you can't call another raise? I can think of only one - you are mad at your chips. Can anyone add to the list? Is there a positive reason to do so that I have missed? | ||
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| Re: Mad at your chips, ReMMy, 25. Oct 2003 08:04 | ||
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| I saw the same thing yesterday or the day before in 10/20. When the person folded, I asked why, and she said, so and so never bluffs, he made his flush. I found this fairly amusing for a couple reasons: 1. they didn't necessarily make a flush, maybe they have trips or something. 2. If you make a statement like that, and continue to lay down on the river, the will START bluffing(unless completely stupid). It's just horrible horrible playing, and something that I immediately noted on their acct for future reference. Anytime a 3 flush hits on the river or pairs the board, you better believe I'll be aware of a possible bluff reraise bluff opportunity... | ||
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| Re: Mad at your chips, timmer, 25. Oct 2003 10:17 | ||
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| i would think there is enough in the pot to call . However many players spend way too much trying to bluff the unbluffable. Others are so trigger happy a 3 barreled 10 gauge auto loading shotgun aint got enough firepower for their brand of rabbit hunting. | ||
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| Re: Mad at your chips, Barry T, 25. Oct 2003 11:05 | ||
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| Hi. Let's say you make a (2-card) K-hi flush at the river. You bet and get raised by a player who wil raise on a wide variety of hands, including any flush or sometimes a straight or or set. You can call, sure, and see if you win. But you might judge that the money you are leaving on the table is not worth it, so you raraise. But when it is now 4-bets back to you, you are certain you are doomed. Do you call because you like your chips? Do you go back and decide to never 3-bet the river without the absolute nuts? BarryT | ||
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| Re: Mad at your chips, timmer, 25. Oct 2003 11:25 | ||
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| well certainties are few and far between in poker . But if I am certain My K high flush is beat (like the AXs showed me his cards) I would muck it. | ||
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| Re: Mad at your chips, Angel, 25. Oct 2003 11:34 | ||
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| Barry, No, I don't decide to never 3-bet the river without the nuts but I think I do refuse to bet the river without the nuts if I can't call a 4-bet. The implication that ReMMy made, that the certainty with which you can be sure that you are beat will decrese dramatically every time you make this move and your opponent simply has to bluff proportionally correct at this point to make it appropriate for you to call nearly every time. I guess the critical error of losing the pot to save a bet when the pot is laying you approximately 16:1 on a call means that your opponent should 4-bet you something like 93% of the time that they have nothing - and of course everytime when they have the something they must have to not be bluffing (the hand that would get you to lay down the 2nd nuts per your example correctly) - it just seems that the 3-bettor should be calling 19 out of 20 times with the 2nd nuts - and I know that I am incapable of keeping track, in this case I would always err on the side of caution and make the call every time or not 3-bet. As always, thank you for responding. I'll continue thinking about it and see if your explanation makes more sense to me after a few days. | ||
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| Re: Mad at your chips, Barry T, 25. Oct 2003 11:44 | ||
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| Hi. Certainly, if your opponent is a wise, clever, mathematical player, you need to call or not 3-bet. But not all opponents (in fact very few opponents) are like that. Some are not great players who do not think at some deep 4th order level. They simply call without the nuts and raise with the nuts after three bets. You are supposed to be able to tell them apart. (Please also bear in mind thet they do not know YOU do not have the nuts). BarryT [In fact, sometimes you see them counting on their fingers to make sure a straight flush is not out there before they 4-bet you). | ||
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| Re: Mad at your chips, shorn, 27. Oct 2003 09:53 | ||
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| If I won't call a cap with the second nuts, then I don't 3-bet. At the levels that you two play (Angel/Barry), I can't imagine 3-betting and then mucking to a cap because any decent player will be so stunned as to remember that and try it against you. Unless you were 3-betting on a pure bluff, you have to call with your hand in my opinion. | ||
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| Re: Mad at your chips, stdioh, 27. Oct 2003 11:14 | ||
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| That is just plain, simple idiocy. Nobody in their right mind would do that at all. There's just no way ... unless the guy turned over his cards and showed a better hand. | ||
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