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Server Time: 12/2/2008 12:49:20 AM PACIFIC |
 How to steal blinds?, magnus, 24. Oct 2003 13:12 | ||
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| I'm trying to increase my "arsenal of weapons" for multi table tournament play, so a quick analysis gave the following questions. Looking over my tournament play, I'm noticing that I have a hard time to "switch gears" to start stealing blinds when the blinds are going up. I'm usually doing Ok early in the tournament playing tight and (lately) aggressive when I get involved, but once the blinds go up and I don't get the cards, I'm slowly getting low stacked due to the blinds. I'm regularly getting into the to 10% and have a couple of final tables, but I'm usually short stacked when getting there. What kind of cards do I need to try a blind steal? What if I'm getting played back at? If I have a short stack, should I even try to steal the blinds? What is a good size bet for a blind steal (NL)? Any other recommendation? Books etc. Thanks, -Magnus | ||
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| Re: How to steal blinds?, KJo, 24. Oct 2003 13:28 | ||
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| The best way to steal blinds is to wait until nobody is looking, then reach across the table and quickly grab them. When someone notices, act like you don't know what's going on. Alright, I'll answer the question. Obviously picking your moments is key. If I'm short-stacked, I'm far more likely to put my whole stack in with anything remotely decent (any pair, any ace, any two cards over 10). Those are also good hands to steal with, since you can get called and still have a shot at winning. If you're not short-stacked and desperate though, you have to have a big enough stack that you can bet and still scare people, and also walk away from a hand if your steal was unsuccessful. Make sure the bet is big enough to scare people, and don't be afraid to go all in if that size of a bet is half your stack already. The bigger the bet, the less likely it is to get called. Also, don't always steal from the obvious spots (on the button, in the cutoff). A very bold play is to try from up front, people will be more scared of a big bet from UTG rather than the button, who obviously is trying to steal. Of course there's more risk, but the payoff can be better. And avoid direct confrontations when a big stack or an aggressive player is in the blinds. Always try to pick on the weak. I also like to steal when someone limps in front of me. Unless they're slowplaying a monster, they will lay it down and that just adds to the pot. A good read of your fellow players will help you here. Eli on 24. Oct 2003 13:12 magnus wrote: > I'm trying to increase my "arsenal of weapons" for multi table tournament play, > so a quick analysis gave the following questions. > > Looking over my tournament play, I'm noticing that I have a hard time to > "switch gears" to start stealing blinds when the blinds are going up. > > I'm usually doing Ok early in the tournament playing tight and (lately) > aggressive when I get involved, but once the blinds go up and I don't get the > cards, I'm slowly getting low stacked due to the blinds. I'm regularly getting > into the to 10% and have a couple of final tables, but I'm usually short stacked > when getting there. > > What kind of cards do I need to try a blind steal? What if I'm getting played > back at? If I have a short stack, should I even try to steal the blinds? What is > a good size bet for a blind steal (NL)? Any other recommendation? Books etc. > > Thanks, > > -Magnus > | ||
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| Re: How to steal blinds?, GoBears, 24. Oct 2003 23:33 | ||
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| I'm afraid that if I ever sat at the same table as KJo, we'd just pass our chips back and forth to each other. That is pretty much my strategy as well. I desperately avoid trying to straight steal against the big stack. And I love to do it against the SB and BB when they both have fewer chips than me. That way if they call, I can continue to semi-bluff at it if the flop misses me. Go Bears "Don't sweat the petty things - and don't pet the sweaty things." | ||
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| Re: How to steal blinds?, Formless, 24. Oct 2003 14:12 | ||
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| Don't steal raise from steal position. It sounds backwards and doesn't apply in all situations, but makes some sense. At a table with good players you will not get away with raising your weaker hands 3xBB on the button every time you have the chance, someone will get suspicious. So consider raising from slightly earlier position, you will be given credit for a bigger hand and are more likely to win the post uncontested, which you often want to do. Here is one hand I played which illustrates this idea from the other perspective: $55 Paradise NL tournament, blinds 50-100, I have about 850 in chips and started with 1000. Time to get busy. It was folded to me about 7 handed I think and I was in the cutoff and had TT. I decided to make a minimum raise to 200. I had a top notch tournament player behind me on the button who I have played with a lot before who had something like 1400 in chips, who moved all in, and it was folded back to me. I called in a heartbeat, he showed KJs, and I win the pot when the board doesn't help him. My minimum raise preflop was a bluff-bluff. It was small enough not to commit me to the pot and gave the appearance that I would fold to a big raise. While a minimum raise can often mean AA or KK, when it comes from late position it is often a weak blind steal. Anyway, the guy on the button was smart enough to figure all of this out, and since he was only average stack and had to get busy himself he shoved his KJs in as a semi-bluff. The chip leader was in the BB and had only 2500 chips, so he was not going to call two raisers unless he had a huge hand. So while the button and I were essentially a coin toss heads up, we were dividing the SB and BB, giving us both an overlay. This is one way to get extra value when it is do or die time. My TT is very likely the best hand when it gets folded to me preflop, and my stack is still big enough to get respect when I shove it in, and I may not see a hand this good until it is too late. So stealing the blinds with a big preflop raise isn't a coup, even if I get them I am still well under par. I felt a small raise would get me bluff action, maybe a fold from the BB, maybe a call from the BB. I can also win on the flop, turn or river. While survival is golden in tournament strategy, you have to extract maximum value from you best hands when it gets critical. So be creative when stealing blinds and trying to survive. Know your opponents and figure out how you can make money from them. | ||
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| Re: How to steal blinds?, modestmice, 24. Oct 2003 14:17 | ||
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| u and KoJack seem to have read the same book about blind stealin' | ||
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| Stealing blinds? Not about the cards., PBG, 24. Oct 2003 15:43 | ||
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| Technically, you can steal holding NOTHING at all in your hands. Ask Gus Hansen (LOL) but you need to check the contents of your pants first. It's a crapshoot for the most part. What's your table image? How big are the blinds' stacks? And do you have a sherriff at your table? Actually the sherriff is the factor that most concerns me at a table. This is the suspicious individual at your table that will question every raise and try to keep people honest. I usually try to wait for the sheriff to go broke and leave before I get frisky unless I have a monster. How well do you bluff??? Do you have a friend that can watch you play and tell you what's up? | ||
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| Re: Stealing blinds? Not about the cards., magnus, 24. Oct 2003 16:20 | ||
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| Yes, I guess you are right. I'm not a very good bluffer (something else I have to work on) so I think I have to start with something like a semi-bluff (having a hand with some possibilities) and then work myself up to the "real thing" (ala Gus Hansen). Hmmm, checking the contents of my pants first..... Do they have to be brass or is just big enough..... ;-) -Magnus | ||
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| Re: How to steal blinds?, magnus, 24. Oct 2003 16:29 | ||
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| Thanks for all the good advice, I will definitely try it next time I'm playing. So, a followup question: I guess a good size bet to steal (or when you have a good hand) is about 3xBB. So what would people consider a short stack? When 3xBB would be half your chips so a good raise would leave you with only half your stack? In that case, after your stack is less than 6xBB, you will be more likely to go all-in instead of just raising? -Magnus | ||
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| Re: How to steal blinds?, KJo, 25. Oct 2003 10:46 | ||
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| The answer to "how big should the bet be" is "big enough to scare them." There's no 3x or any other formula, it depends on how big your stack is, how big their stacks are, what stage of the tournament you're in, what kind of players they are, etc. It would have to be at least 3x though, the BB will have the odds to call lower than that particularly if you're in the ante phase of the tournament. If your stack is such that raising a scary amount will put you in committed, you might as well put your diaper on and push your whole stack in. Eli on 24. Oct 2003 16:29 magnus wrote: > Thanks for all the good advice, I will definitely try it next time I'm playing. > > So, a followup question: > I guess a good size bet to steal (or when you have a good hand) is about 3xBB. So > what would people consider a short stack? When 3xBB would be half your chips so a > good raise would leave you with only half your stack? > In that case, after your stack is less than 6xBB, you will be more likely to go > all-in instead of just raising? > > -Magnus > | ||
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| Re: How to steal blinds?, rdale, 24. Oct 2003 23:52 | ||
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| I try to pick a spot where I can do the most damage with the least amount of damage done to me. If there are two players short stacked in the blinds next to each other, they have become my target. depending on stack size I may or may not even bother with having cards, just raise enough where the rest of the table should fold and gobbly the blinds or double up a short stack. Of course with any bluff... it can back fire, that is why I choose the smaller stack to bully. If I have a big chip lead, I will fire at from nearly any position most of the time. Milage varies for me with this play and seems to work best when I'm already doing well. | ||
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| Re: How to steal blinds?, rdale, 24. Oct 2003 23:54 | ||
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| Oh if I've seen a player make a weak laydown when they should have called, I keep an eye on their blinds... and watch out if they call. | ||
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