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Server Time: 10/11/2008 5:51:33 AM PACIFIC |
 Tells, Aisthesis, 24. Oct 2003 12:14 | ||
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| Having played almost exclusively online poker of late and only one live tournament, I am interested to know the experts' opinion on the true value of "physical" tells. With my online experience, I'm obviously much more oriented toward observing betting habits, then there's the "requesting time" trick/tell (I used this once to show that I was hesitating to call on a monster hand and ended up cleaning the other guy out). Anyhow, at my small live tournament, I was the only person at the table not wearing sunglasses. I also observed a little bit to see how people were acting when the looked at their pockets but didn't notice anything special, so I just made made my observations on how they bet and did my thing, placing 2nd on a nine-player table and hence happy to win some money. After the game, a friend who was playing was commenting on my tells, and she said things I was already aware of but not really concerned about. Anyhow, my impression on my own tells in light of those comments: My expressions and gestures really didn't give anything away as to whether I have a great hand or a horrible one. The one thing I do like to do is when I'm thinking, I'll drum the table with my fingers. As far as I'm concerned, that really doesn't show much. Ok, so I'm thinking about it... That can mean almost anything. Either I have a borderline hand for folding or I have the bomb and am trying to figure out how to get the most money out of it. Or I have something fairly normal but am considering doing something a little unusual with it. At expert level, I would be interested to know how much you guys are paying attention to smallish physical quirks. Even without sunglasses, I really don't think I get that "gleam in my eye" with a good hand, but I may be wrong. Anyhow, I'm inclined at a new table (live) still to look first at betting habits, keep a bit of an eye on physical behavior but not jump to big conclusions there too quickly. I'd be interested to hear what the experts have to say on this. Am I myself probably giving away more than I think I am? Am I probably missing out unnecessarily on a little edge I could get? I'll just pose this as "hypothesis for discussion": One MUST keep a close eye ALWAYS on betting habits and their fluctuations in the game. Physical tells may provide a slight edge over and above that but are generally less important and as a rule can only be used reliably if you've observed the same player several times. | ||
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| Re: Tells, modestmice, 24. Oct 2003 15:57 | ||
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| thats funny about the hesitation, because UPF had a thread called the only online tell i can be sure of" and it was pausing witha big hand. so i guess that cheese move wont work with upfers! | ||
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| Re: Tells, Aisthesis, 25. Oct 2003 11:27 | ||
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| Yeah, I will say that after my initial success with that move (it was really an exceptional situation where the guy's bet was clearly saying, "I want you to fold"), intentional delay hasn't done any good. From what you're saying perhaps it would be worth a try against good and observant players with vulnerable holdings to use it in the reverse way--to get them to think you're sitting on the bomb hand. | ||
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| Re: Tells, modestmice, 24. Oct 2003 16:07 | ||
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| i wouldnt waste anytime worrying about tells in lowlimit buyin tournies. just dont do anything really really obvious and yer fine. tells have to be the most overrated WPT fueled thing ever. more important is reading people. but i assure u, even if you twitched and sputtered everytime you had the nuts, no one would notice. well maybe, but unlikely. worse is the bad acting that newbies attempt. just dont try and act. play straight forward and focus on the basics, not the hollywood stuff. goodluck | ||
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| Re: Tells, ReMMy, 24. Oct 2003 17:30 | ||
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| If you often drum your fingers, be careful that you don't stop drumming them when you bluff, as that is a common tell. Any continuous habit that is stopped when betting is often a bluff. | ||
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| Re: Tells, tommyhawk, 25. Oct 2003 07:33 | ||
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| check out the videotells on this site by mike. incredibly helpfull. | ||
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| Re: Tells, timmer, 26. Oct 2003 08:16 | ||
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| Or invest in his tells video and book. I feel these works are worth mucho denaro. | ||
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| Re: Tells, KJo, 25. Oct 2003 10:59 | ||
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| Just create a routine for yourself and never deviate from it. Rest your head on your hand in some way so that you can't move your head, you don't want to twitch when your pocket pair just made quads. Whatever you do with your hands, keep doing it (that didn't sound right...) If someone is staring you down, just find something of your own to stare at so your eyes don't wander. Eli on 24. Oct 2003 12:14 Aisthesis wrote: > Having played almost exclusively online poker of late and only one live > tournament, I am interested to know the experts' opinion on the true value of > "physical" tells. With my online experience, I'm obviously much more oriented > toward observing betting habits, then there's the "requesting time" trick/tell > (I used this once to show that I was hesitating to call on a monster hand and > ended up cleaning the other guy out). > Anyhow, at my small live tournament, I was the only person at the table not > wearing sunglasses. I also observed a little bit to see how people were acting > when the looked at their pockets but didn't notice anything special, so I just > made made my observations on how they bet and did my thing, placing 2nd on a > nine-player table and hence happy to win some money. > After the game, a friend who was playing was commenting on my tells, and she > said things I was already aware of but not really concerned about. Anyhow, my > impression on my own tells in light of those comments: My expressions and > gestures really didn't give anything away as to whether I have a great hand or a > horrible one. The one thing I do like to do is when I'm thinking, I'll drum the > table with my fingers. As far as I'm concerned, that really doesn't show much. > Ok, so I'm thinking about it... That can mean almost anything. Either I have a > borderline hand for folding or I have the bomb and am trying to figure out how > to get the most money out of it. Or I have something fairly normal but am > considering doing something a little unusual with it. > At expert level, I would be interested to know how much you guys are paying > attention to smallish physical quirks. Even without sunglasses, I really don't > think I get that "gleam in my eye" with a good hand, but I may be wrong. > Anyhow, I'm inclined at a new table (live) still to look first at betting > habits, keep a bit of an eye on physical behavior but not jump to big > conclusions there too quickly. I'd be interested to hear what the experts have > to say on this. Am I myself probably giving away more than I think I am? Am I > probably missing out unnecessarily on a little edge I could get? > I'll just pose this as "hypothesis for discussion": One MUST keep a close eye > ALWAYS on betting habits and their fluctuations in the game. Physical tells may > provide a slight edge over and above that but are generally less important and > as a rule can only be used reliably if you've observed the same player several > times. | ||
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| Re: Tells, Barry T, 25. Oct 2003 11:16 | ||
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| Hi. tells are vital in live poker, but typically not the ones you are looking for. Here is an easy one: Yesterday at Bellagio I hold 44 in the cutooff. The mediocre player to tthe right of me open-raises. There is somethng to said for me reraising here to buy the button, get heads up with the raiser and try to play the hand from there. He will let me know if I am ahead of behind on the flop pretty easily. But while I am deciding, I look left and see the player on the button loading up his fist with chips for a reraise of his own. So I muck,. On-line it is hard to see them loading up behind you. (Hand is memorable as I would have flopped a set of 4's and been easily rivered by a Q on the end making the button a set of Q's.) This reading by staring at the opponent is largely nonsense, (though it has worrked for me once or twice). But in low limit tournamnets, people will get ready to muck behind you often, thus enhancing your position, as one example. It is not worth killing yourself over, but tells are there (some so obvious you do not even count them as tells) but the more you look the more you see. BarryT | ||
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| Re: Tells, Aisthesis, 25. Oct 2003 11:22 | ||
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| That's an excellent example. I think it goes to show that it pays to keep your eyes open--while still spending most of your mental energy on how to play the hand itself and constantly gathering data on betting styles, mood changes, etc. | ||
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| Re: Tells, KJo, 25. Oct 2003 15:52 | ||
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| That was a good example of a tell and a reverse tell. I've been the guy in LP grabbing up my chips to reraise since I want it heads up, I've done that to keep others between me and the raiser from calling. It works both ways. Eli on 25. Oct 2003 11:22 Aisthesis wrote: > That's an excellent example. I think it goes to show that it pays to keep your eyes > open--while still spending most of your mental energy on how to play the hand itself and > constantly gathering data on betting styles, mood changes, etc. | ||
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