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Server Time: 12/2/2008 12:26:30 AM PACIFIC |
 Comment on the turn pls...Kill hand, mkpoker, 22. Oct 2003 22:16 | ||
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| We're at 3/6 HE on UB, a kill hand (limits up 6/12). I was relatively new to the table and am dealt AsKs--nice timing for my first premium hand. I'm in MP. 2 folds, 1 call (he seemed a good player), and 1 KB check to me. I raise. Everyone else folds and the original callers call. I'll be in LP for the rest of the hand. This is setting up nicely. Flop comes 8cAh2c. Except for the flush draw, an ideal flop for me. Two checks, player on my right (the good player) bets. I raise. Only the original bettor calls. Turn comes Ad, giving me top set, top kicker. Checked to me. With the flush draw on the board (plus the pot being big), I'm not giving a free card, so I bet. He raises, which surprises me. What could he have? Maybe he flopped 2-pair and just filled up? I think about reraising, but chastened by his raise, I just call (a mistake?) River comes 4c, completing the flush draw. [Board is now 8cAh2cAd4c]. It's bet to me. I call (raising seems a poor play given the 3 clubs on the board). He turns over Ac6c, for the nut flush. Question: Should I have reraised the turn? As it turned out, a reraise would have cost me more $$ in the end, but was it the right play? Question 2: What do you think of HIS turn raise. Clearly, it was a semi-bluff, but given how agressive I had been, it seemed unlikely (from his persepective) that I would have folded. In his shoes, I think I would have called to see the river as cheaply as possible. How 'bout you? | ||
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| Re: Comment on the turn pls...Kill hand, KJo, 23. Oct 2003 09:27 | ||
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| His turn raise was correct, he had a killer hand and he likely wouldn't put you on a FH since you raised pre-flop and I'm guessing you're not the type of player to raise pre-flop with A8 or A2. I wouldn't have re-raised him on the turn for the same reasons you gave- I would put him on a full house or a nut flush draw. That being said, calling to the river is still correct, you're obviously not going to lay down your hand, and definitely don't raise the river since now you have to worry about the FH and a flush, and given his play he could have either. Bottom line- if you raise him on the turn or river, he's likely going to raise you back, and you really don't want that when the board is paired and has a flush draw. Eli on 22. Oct 2003 22:16 mkpoker wrote: > We're at 3/6 HE on UB, a kill hand (limits up 6/12). I was relatively new to > the table and am dealt AsKs--nice timing for my first premium hand. I'm in > MP. > > 2 folds, 1 call (he seemed a good player), and 1 KB check to me. I raise. > Everyone else folds and the original callers call. I'll be in LP for the rest > of the hand. This is setting up nicely. > > Flop comes 8cAh2c. Except for the flush draw, an ideal flop for me. Two > checks, player on my right (the good player) bets. I raise. Only the original > bettor calls. Turn comes Ad, giving me top set, top kicker. > > Checked to me. With the flush draw on the board (plus the pot being big), I'm > not giving a free card, so I bet. He raises, which surprises me. What could he > have? Maybe he flopped 2-pair and just filled up? I think about reraising, but > chastened by his raise, I just call (a mistake?) > > River comes 4c, completing the flush draw. [Board is now 8cAh2cAd4c]. It's > bet to me. I call (raising seems a poor play given the 3 clubs on the board). > He turns over Ac6c, for the nut flush. > > Question: Should I have reraised the turn? As it turned out, a reraise would > have cost me more $$ in the end, but was it the right play? > > Question 2: What do you think of HIS turn raise. Clearly, it was a > semi-bluff, but given how agressive I had been, it seemed unlikely (from his > persepective) that I would have folded. In his shoes, I think I would have > called to see the river as cheaply as possible. How 'bout you? | ||
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| Re: Comment on the turn pls...Kill hand, Blue Sky, 23. Oct 2003 15:31 | ||
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| With the exception of your opponents pre-flop call of a raise with Axs I think that both of you played this hand excellently. He just happened to come out on top. On the flop you opponent caught top pair with the nut flush re-draw and bet out as he should of. He has now reason to believe that you're also playing an A with a better kicker, you could have any number of hands that he can beat. Your raise was excellent, you want to skew the odds of the Kill button with any hands such as the flush draw, or single pair with the possiblity of catching up with a second pair. The turn must of looked like a god send to your opponent. The 3rd A (as he knows it) hit the board. The chances of you having the case A are pretty slim and he believes he is definetly ahead and knows that you cannot outdraw you on the flush. (I probably would of bet it out again, afraid that you wouldn't bet the turn for me to c/r since i would of believed you to be playing a lower pocket pair.) He went for the checkraise and it worked for him. You bet with top trips and top kicker and you wanted to make his (as you assumed) flush draw pay to get there. The other reason for you not to raise back here is if, based on his prior actions (and his prior actions dictated) that possibly he had flopped a lower set and now was full and your only drawing to 3 outs to beat him. The river, he got the card he wanted and you didn't...Thats hold'em for you. | ||
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| Re: Comment on the turn pls...Kill hand, McMonkey, 24. Oct 2003 11:26 | ||
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| While I agree with KJo and Blue Sky I am thinking about the merits of a raise on the turn. Here's what I've come up with, let me know if there are any holes in it: The big assumption here is that the other player is a decent player (usually makes logical decisions). Ok, so on the turn we (mk) has top trips top kicker. What are the range of hands are we putting the other player on? Based on the pre-flop call and betting out/calling the raise on the flop we have to assume he had a piece of it. At the least, on the turn, we put him on 2 pair or the nut-flush draw. Also he could have trip aces lower kicker or at worst (for us at least) he has a PP and filled up on the turn. Out of those hands, only one has us beat at the moment. On the other hand, of all the hands that we have beat as of now, all of them (with the exception of trip aces lower kicker) have reasonable draws to beat us on the river. Therefore I feel that a re-raise might be warranted here. Now the other player did check-raise the turn, but isn't it a fairly common play (at LL) to bet/raise when a scare card hits or the board pairs? If we re-raise here and it gets capped we can safely fold. If the other player just calls perhaps we get a free showdown on the river. And the best part is that the re-raise gives the other player the chance to fold. At worst this would put one extra BB in the pot (if it's called and the other player bets the river). I don't think that, with this board, trip A's is such a powerful hand that you need to get to a showdown. Anyway, what do you guys think..does this give us (and by us I of course mean mk) a better chance to take down this pot? | ||
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