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Server Time: 12/1/2008 11:58:24 PM PACIFIC |
 bet or check/ call?, OUTLAW, 22. Oct 2003 13:12 | ||
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| After every session I go over the borderline decisions that I had made throughout and can usually figure out what the best course of action was. Im not so sure that I shouldve checked the turn here though maybe you guys can help me out. $5-10 game, loose UTG limps, weak button limps, SB limps and I check with QJo. The flop comes QJ8 w/ 2 spades. I bet it and get called by all three of them. The turn brings the ugly 9s. We check to the button who now bets, Im the only caller. The river is an offsuit Ace and I check call. The button had A5 of clubs(?), so I take it. I took the cautious route because I figured I was probably behind at least one of the flop callers when the suited 9 hit. But then looking back I dont think that a bet wouldve been an awful play. By betting Im making the people who have a single spade pay to draw out. And even if I am behind I do have some outs. Any thoughts? Also is this something I could work out using turbo texas holdem software?Thanks in advance. | ||
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| Re: bet or check/ call?, KJo, 22. Oct 2003 13:26 | ||
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| It isn't the player holding a single spade you needed to worry about as much as the player holding a 10. I'd check the turn here as well- imagine your horror if you bet it and it gets raised once or twice before it comes back to you. You want to get your hand to a showdown as cheaply as you can in this situation. That being said, one thing I might have done differently would be a check-raise on the flop, but only if you're sure someone will bet. Eli on 22. Oct 2003 13:12 OUTLAW wrote: > After every session I go over the borderline decisions that I had made > throughout and can usually figure out what the best course of action was. Im not > so sure that I shouldve checked the turn here though maybe you guys can help me > out. > $5-10 game, loose UTG limps, weak button limps, SB limps and I check with > QJo. The flop comes QJ8 w/ 2 spades. I bet it and get called by all three of > them. The turn brings the ugly 9s. We check to the button who now bets, Im the > only caller. The river is an offsuit Ace and I check call. The button had A5 of > clubs(?), so I take it. > I took the cautious route because I figured I was probably behind at least > one of the flop callers when the suited 9 hit. But then looking back I dont > think that a bet wouldve been an awful play. By betting Im making the people who > have a single spade pay to draw out. And even if I am behind I do have some > outs. Any thoughts? Also is this something I could work out using turbo texas > holdem software?Thanks in advance. | ||
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| Re: bet or check/ call?, Formless, 22. Oct 2003 13:48 | ||
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| What do you people have against checkraising? Seriously, it seems every post I see here, everyone bets their hand out on the flop in early position. I guess you folks haven't gotten rivered as much as I have ;-) When I flop a hand in early position, I'm checkraising it unless there is a good reason to bet it out. Small two pair hands come to mind. And checkraise the turn, too. You'd be surprised how often that works. | ||
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| Re: bet or check/ call?, Blue Sky, 22. Oct 2003 14:05 | ||
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| Formless, I agree with you that many people don't checkraise enough, especially in LL games but in this particular situation I think Outlaw's play was correct and justified. There was both a possible 4 flush and either a made straight or gutshot straight draw. Because he didn't give any info on his opponents I cannot be sure what I would of done but I think the best option based on the limited info we have is to bet out from EP. Normally, a checkraise is a great play on the flop or the turn but I have rarely gotten the opportunity to do it on both the flop and turn. If you are getting that opportunity thats awesome, use it on every hand. I would like to find out how you pull it off. | ||
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| Why Not Checkraise?, mkpoker, 22. Oct 2003 14:08 | ||
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| That's a fair question, and of course, I can only answer with my personal experience at LL online and in B&M casinos. I very rarely check-raise at B&M play and rarely do so on-line. Why? Because games can be so passive (especially LL B&M games) that there's too great a chance the flop will be checked-around. Of course, that's the worst case scenario if you're trying to get money in. To check-raise, you need to be virtually certain that someone will bet behind you. In most cases (again, in my LLHE games), I rarely have the certainty needed to attempt the play. Also, a check-rase is a play that advertises tremendous strength in your hand. There's really no deception left after a successful checkraise. It's lots of fun to pull off (Brier & Ciaffone's Mid-Limit Hold 'Em compare a checkraise to jumping out from behind a curtain and surprising your "victim" by yelling "Aha! I've got you now!"). C&B also think checkraises are overused. That's not to say it's never right. Trying to push people out of a pot by forcing them to call a double-bet cold can be successful. But for me it's definitely the exception...not the rule. on 22. Oct 2003 13:48 Formless wrote: > What do you people have against checkraising? > > Seriously, it seems every post I see here, everyone bets their hand out on the flop in early position. I guess you folks haven't gotten rivered as much as I have ;-) > > When I flop a hand in early position, I'm checkraising it unless there is a good reason to bet it out. And checkraise the turn, too. You'd be surprised how often that works. | ||
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| Re: Why Not Checkraise?, modestmice, 22. Oct 2003 14:24 | ||
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| wooooow, where do u play B+M? passive? here in baghdad by the bay you can check raise the flop, the turn and the river. | ||
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| Re: Why Not Checkraise?, Formless, 22. Oct 2003 15:03 | ||
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| Lol, you guys make me want to break my self-imposed "no ring game" rule and go checkraise the s**t out of some podunks at a PartyPoker 15-30 table. must......have.......discipline........and.................................bankroll....;-) | ||
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| Re: Why Not Checkraise?, Mark Barnett II, 23. Oct 2003 09:09 | ||
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| ok hopefully some of the pros will see this and answer. i very rarely try for a chk raise at low limits cause i just dont have the confidence that someone will bet and noone betting is much worse than not getting double bets in. now to me a chk raise is the most basic fancy play and many say dont use fancy plays at low limit *exceptions sure* what are pros thoughts? | ||
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