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Server Time: 12/2/2008 12:06:18 AM PACIFIC |
 trips with a 3-flush on board, Warren Olson, 22. Oct 2003 12:50 | ||
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| I am a very new player and last night I ran into a new situation. I had pocket sevens in middle position and the flop came 2 7 10 all spades. I bet and four players called. It was checked to me on the turn after a heart came and I didn't know what to do, so I checked. I was afraid of someone slowplaying a made flush. Everyone checked and the river was a blank. One player bet, I raised and won the pot. I would appreciate any advice. I really had no idea what to do on the flop or the turn. Thanks | ||
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| Re: trips with a 3-flush on board, Eman, 22. Oct 2003 13:03 | ||
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| You have to bet out here and make the players pay for drawing to the flush. If they already have the flush and raise you, you can call the one bet. You still have 10 outs to make a boat. If this was No limit, I would make a significant bet to eliminate the correct odds for them to call. If some does call, you still have 10 outs | ||
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| Re: trips with a 3-flush on board, mkpoker, 22. Oct 2003 13:50 | ||
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| I think Eman is exactly right, but I wanted to add a little detail, since you said you were a new player. When you've made a set on the flop, but the flop is all spades, you're only behind if someone already has the flush. Unfortunately, that's a possibility, but I'd guess it's more likely that one or more callers holds a single high spade and needs one more to complete his flush. That's where the principle of "making draws pay" comes into play. If you're ahead, and someone else is drawing in an effort to overtake your hand, you can't let them do it for free. You need to bet and raise to charge them the MAXIMUM price. However, you MIGHT already be behind (if someone already made the flush). As Eman notes, that's really OK in this situation because you have good change of "outdrawing" the flush with a full house. If the 4th seven comes, you'll make quads, and if the board pairs, you'll make a Full House. So on the turn card, you have 7 good "outs" and on the river, you'll have 10 (3 more because of the possibility of pairing the turn card). All told, that means you have more than a 33% chance of improving to a FH or better, which will beat any flush (except a straight flush, of course). If you knew for a FACT that an opponent made the flush on the flop, you'd likely fold--depending upon the amount of money in the pot. But given the ambiguity your opponents holdings, your reasonable (1/3) chance of improvement, and the near-certainty that someone is trying to draw out on you, you definitely need to BET. | ||
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| Re: trips with a 3-flush on board, Formless, 22. Oct 2003 13:40 | ||
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| You want to do everything possible to get players out on the flop. Checkraise the flop if you are in early position. You absolutely have to bet the turn. Checking the turn is a disaster that will cost you the pot if another spade hits and someone takes the pot with a baby flush. You have a bunch of outs to a full house or better on the turn even if you are against a made flush. Bet, raise, and reraise this hand. | ||
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| Re: trips with a 3-flush on board, pt_Gatsby, 22. Oct 2003 15:20 | ||
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| The odds perspective! The odds work something like this: Chances of you making better than a flush: there are 7 cards on the turn and then 10 cards on the river. That gives you 7/49 and 10/48 (or 35.1%). You will auto win, therefore, 35.1% of the time, regardless of whether they get their flush. They will get their flush 9/49 and 9/48 of the time (or 37.1% of the time), also meaning that you will win some 62.9% of the time, ignoring other hands that can beat you. This gives you a very positive position on the flop, basicly meaning that you can bet it up. You should win, at this point, roughly 75% of the time against the flush. As for the turn, lets look at it here - you failed to catch your card, but it wasn't a spade. That gives you 10/48 chances to get your boat (or 20.8%). They will now get their flush 18.8% of the time. This gives you a winning percent that is even higher - roughly 86%. You should be betting this for just about every reason possible... because if they call, you should earn more... because if they fold, you win now with no risk... I think the point is that you should be better automatically into this pot. If a fourth spade did show up, and then your odds are dramatically different (they win some 79% of the time)... the more you can drive out, the better - and if not, you had the advantage anyway. If you repeat this process over and over, you will win more money from them and they will from you... so put your money in. Whoof - working out these odds for every situation that comes up sure has helped me :) Hopefully they are right! | ||
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| Re: trips with a 3-flush on board, Hatchthunder, 23. Oct 2003 06:14 | ||
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| If you lose with trips and you do not lose big you have played them badly. You need to "ram and jam" like Phil H. says. | ||
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| Re: trips with a 3-flush on board, KevinK, 23. Oct 2003 12:52 | ||
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| When that hits the board, you have to consider two things first regarding the others (there are loads of possibilities but these are the first threat): 1.Someone may have a made flush and could be trapping with them if they slow play often. 2.Someone may be on a draw and trying to earn a free turn or river. In any case you have to bet the flop to see where you stand to put pressure on them in limit, a decent sized bet in NL. This achieves the following: 1. Punish those on a draw but allows you to attempt singling out the player who may have the goods. 2. Give the illusion YOU have it. If they stay in, they're likely holding jack to ace in their draw or could have it if they have a badit for playing ANY suited hands(I've run into people who play J 2 suited and when asked why they played it, they say bc they were suited). If turn is a blank, do it again. You may knock out a player or two out of the pot, but if they call, they could just be stubborn, think you are bluffing, or really have it(always have to consider that worst case scenario). If the river is a blank, fire the third shell. Those that don't have it will probably fold their hand, anyone that has it will probably call (if someone has the nuts, they will be content with winning whatever amount the pot has in it). Assuming that you didn't overplay your hand too much, if you lose you should still have a decent chip count left and the knowledge you did what you could. If you win, enjoy your win and that pot will make them think twice about going on a draw again. | ||
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