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What would you have done?, Poker God, 22. Oct 2003 02:09
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Tonight I was sitting in my normal 5-10 game and there was a new player I didn't know who had been trying to show off how "good" he was all night. Well after awhile another new player I didn't know sat down and started playing every hand. This new loose player beat the "good" player in a pot with Q4o which he had played UTG. The "good" player then took the next 10 minutes to berate him and tell him how bad he was and all that crap. The loose player tried defending himself with saying he can play how he wants but kept getting a verbal lashing from the "good" player. Me feeling bad for the player being berated, as I wanted his money and him to continue playing the way he was, did nothing to stop it from happening. The loose player than folded the next 5 hands and then got up and left when it was his BB. I felt there should have been something I could have done to stop all that from happening but didn't know what to do. Has anyone else run across or dealt with this before? Any suggestions for what I should do if this happens again? Thanks
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Re: What would you have done?, modestmice, 22. Oct 2003 03:02
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on 22. Oct 2003 02:09 Poker God wrote:
> Tonight I was sitting in my normal 5-10 game and there was a new player I didn't
> know who had been trying to show off how "good" he was all night. Well after
> awhile another new player I didn't know sat down and started playing every hand.
> This new loose player beat the "good" player in a pot with Q4o which he had
> played UTG. The "good" player then took the next 10 minutes to berate him and
> tell him how bad he was and all that crap. The loose player tried defending
> himself with saying he can play how he wants but kept getting a verbal lashing
> from the "good" player. Me feeling bad for the player being berated, as I wanted
> his money and him to continue playing the way he was, did nothing to stop it
> from happening. The loose player than folded the next 5 hands and then got up
> and left when it was his BB. I felt there should have been something I could
> have done to stop all that from happening but didn't know what to do. Has anyone
> else run across or dealt with this before? Any suggestions for what I should do
> if this happens again? Thanks\

the only thing u can do is cring, and wonder why people would want to berate their cashcows, if they truly were bad. nothing u can really do. people are stupid.
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Re: What would you have done?, ShootEmUp, 22. Oct 2003 05:53
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I see this happen all the time in small limits and hardly ever in big bet poker. The reason for this is that pros know the importance of having a "live player" in the game and usually say nice hand.
The low limit player only sees the hand at present and should look at the big picture that this player can NEVER WIN and should say nothing at all.
I would approach this player in a nice manner and tell him the importance of having loose players in the game and that when he beats him in a pot day after day this is what really matter.
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Re: What would you have done?, modestmice, 22. Oct 2003 06:07
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on 22. Oct 2003 05:53 ShootEmUp wrote:
> I see this happen all the time in small limits and hardly ever in big bet poker. The
> reason for this is that pros know the importance of having a "live player" in the
> game and usually say nice hand.
> The low limit player only sees the hand at present and should look at the big
> picture that this player can NEVER WIN and should say nothing at all.
> I would approach this player in a nice manner and tell him the importance of having
> loose players in the game and that when he beats him in a pot day after day this is
> what really matter.

my policy (like a lot of the nice cranks here at upf) is to not give advice at the table, live or online. if they can play or not play, say stupid crap or not, its not my job to their mom.
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Re: What would you have done?, McMonkey, 22. Oct 2003 07:04
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I guess that depends. If you're playing poker as a recreation that policy is fine. But if you're playing poker to make money then you HAVE to learn to say something. Those players are chasing away your paycheck. It'd be like if you were waiting tables and some guy followed you around insulting your customers and chasing them out of the restaurant. I'll bet you'd say something then.

You don't need to be a jerk or confrontational to do something in this case. Make a joke, tell the loose player you won with the same hand earlier, tell the losing player he's just mad 'cause he lost. I'm sure that the berating was only half the reason this player left.

The other half was that everyone just sat there, didn't offer any kind words didn't make a friendly atmosphere because they were all uncomfortable due to the berating player's nonesense. Often times doing nothing is just as bad as doing something bad.
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Re: What would you have done?, modestmice, 22. Oct 2003 07:13
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on 22. Oct 2003 07:04 McMonkey wrote:
> I guess that depends. If you're playing poker as a recreation that policy is fine. But if
> you're playing poker to make money then you HAVE to learn to say something. Those players are
> chasing away your paycheck. It'd be like if you were waiting tables and some guy followed you
> around insulting your customers and chasing them out of the restaurant. I'll bet you'd say
> something then.
>
> You don't need to be a jerk or confrontational to do something in this case. Make a joke,
> tell the loose player you won with the same hand earlier, tell the losing player he's just mad
> 'cause he lost. I'm sure that the berating was only half the reason this player left.
>
> The other half was that everyone just sat there, didn't offer any kind words didn't make a
> friendly atmosphere because they were all uncomfortable due to the berating player's nonesense.
> Often times doing nothing is just as bad as doing something bad.

i dont play poker to give out unsolicted advice at the tables. this does not cause me to lose money. maybe in your mind it does, but i seem to do ok without telling difficult people to not scare away the fish. it is a waste of time to talk sense into a diffulcult player, but if you want to do that, then go ahead, if your at my table i wont say anything. (and ill still be a winning player)
:)

-----------------------------------------------------
"I prefer talking with old persons of the female sex who peddle family gossip; next, with the insane-and last, with very sensible people" -S. Kierkegaard
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Re: What would you have done?, gary ford, 22. Oct 2003 11:49
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on 22. Oct 2003 07:13 modestmice wrote:
> on 22. Oct 2003 07:04 McMonkey wrote:
> > I guess that depends. If you're playing poker as a recreation that policy is fine. But if
> > you're playing poker to make money then you HAVE to learn to say something. Those players are
> > chasing away your paycheck. It'd be like if you were waiting tables and some guy followed you
> > around insulting your customers and chasing them out of the restaurant. I'll bet you'd say
> > something then.
> >
> > You don't need to be a jerk or confrontational to do something in this case. Make a joke,
> > tell the loose player you won with the same hand earlier, tell the losing player he's just mad
> > 'cause he lost. I'm sure that the berating was only half the reason this player left.
> >
> > The other half was that everyone just sat there, didn't offer any kind words didn't make a
> > friendly atmosphere because they were all uncomfortable due to the berating player's nonesense.
>
> > Often times doing nothing is just as bad as doing something bad.
>
> i dont play poker to give out unsolicted advice at the tables. this does not cause me to lose
> money. maybe in your mind it does, but i seem to do ok without telling difficult people to not scare
> away the fish. it is a waste of time to talk sense into a diffulcult player, but if you want to do
> that, then go ahead, if your at my table i wont say anything. (and ill still be a winning player)
>

You seem to give a lot of unsolicited comments to us cranks
> :)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> "I prefer talking with old persons of the female sex who peddle family gossip; next, with the
> insane-and last, with very sensible people" -S. Kierkegaard
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Re: What would you have done?, modestmice, 22. Oct 2003 11:55
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on 22. Oct 2003 11:49 gary ford wrote:
> on 22. Oct 2003 07:13 modestmice wrote:
> > on 22. Oct 2003 07:04 McMonkey wrote:
> > > I guess that depends. If you're playing poker as a recreation that policy is fine. But if
> > > you're playing poker to make money then you HAVE to learn to say something. Those players are
> > > chasing away your paycheck. It'd be like if you were waiting tables and some guy followed you
> > > around insulting your customers and chasing them out of the restaurant. I'll bet you'd say
> > > something then.
> > >
> > > You don't need to be a jerk or confrontational to do something in this case. Make a joke,
> > > tell the loose player you won with the same hand earlier, tell the losing player he's just mad
> > > 'cause he lost. I'm sure that the berating was only half the reason this player left.
> > >
> > > The other half was that everyone just sat there, didn't offer any kind words didn't make a
> > > friendly atmosphere because they were all uncomfortable due to the berating player's nonesense.
> >
> > > Often times doing nothing is just as bad as doing something bad.
> >
> > i dont play poker to give out unsolicted advice at the tables. this does not cause me to lose
> > money. maybe in your mind it does, but i seem to do ok without telling difficult people to not scare
>
> > away the fish. it is a waste of time to talk sense into a diffulcult player, but if you want to do
> > that, then go ahead, if your at my table i wont say anything. (and ill still be a winning player)
> >
>
> You seem to give a lot of unsolicited comments to us cranks

LOL, well its better here than at the tables! long live the UPF
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Re: What would you have done?, McMonkey, 22. Oct 2003 12:16
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Well first of all, there is a whole world of difference between giving unsolicited advice and making a friendly table atmosphere. Perhaps I gave the wrong impression. If someone wants to verbally beat on a bad player because he was sucked out on I can't stop him, but I can counter it by being a friendly enjoyable person to play with. This would hopefully be enough to keep the bad player at my table long enough for me to take advantage of his play.

Second of all, if you're at a table with some moron who is going to harass bad players and chase them away then you are not going to make as much money as you would have with the bad players at your table. Period. Even though you don't have the money yet to physically lose, I still consider that losing money, especially in the long term. If you don't call it the same thing, fine, semantics, the idea is there though.

Again, none of this will matter to you if you only play every so often recreationally, but if you make your living playing poker not doing something is like willingly taking a pay cut.
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Re: What would you have done?, modestmice, 22. Oct 2003 12:21
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on 22. Oct 2003 12:16 McMonkey wrote:
> Well first of all, there is a whole world of difference between giving unsolicited advice and making a
> friendly table atmosphere. Perhaps I gave the wrong impression. If someone wants to verbally beat on a
> bad player because he was sucked out on I can't stop him, but I can counter it by being a friendly
> enjoyable person to play with. This would hopefully be enough to keep the bad player at my table long
> enough for me to take advantage of his play.
>
> Second of all, if you're at a table with some moron who is going to harass bad players and chase them
> away then you are not going to make as much money as you would have with the bad players at your table.
> Period. Even though you don't have the money yet to physically lose, I still consider that losing money,
> especially in the long term. If you don't call it the same thing, fine, semantics, the idea is there
> though.
>
> Again, none of this will matter to you if you only play every so often recreationally, but if you make
> your living playing poker not doing something is like willingly taking a pay cut.

i understand your point and but i just dont fell that way. i just dont think you can get people to take advice that will result in you making more money or stopping a jackass from being a jackass, thats all. but in this particular above situation, the one were taking bout, i personally, would not say anything because it wouldnt change a thing.
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Re: What would you have done?, Angel, 22. Oct 2003 07:26
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on 22. Oct 2003 05:53 ShootEmUp wrote:
> I see this happen all the time in small limits and hardly ever in big bet poker.

*blink*
*blink blink*
We must live really far away from each other.
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Re: What would you have done?, modestmice, 22. Oct 2003 07:28
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on 22. Oct 2003 07:26 Angel wrote:
> on 22. Oct 2003 05:53 ShootEmUp wrote:
> > I see this happen all the time in small limits and hardly ever in big bet poker.
>
> *blink*
> *blink blink*
> We must live really far away from each other.

LOL

-----------------------------------------------------
"I prefer talking with old persons of the female sex who peddle family gossip; next, with the insane-and last, with very sensible people" -S. Kierkegaard
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Re: What would you have done?, Stevolley2, 22. Oct 2003 07:12
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Stick up for the bad player with the good player listening, don't be a jerk about it, but just tell him no matter what cards he plays it is his choice. Keep the bad player and put the good player on tilt, without being a complete a$$hole
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Re: What would you have done?, modestmice, 22. Oct 2003 07:21
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on 22. Oct 2003 07:12 Stevolley2 wrote:
> Stick up for the bad player with the good player listening, don't be a jerk about it,
> but just tell him no matter what cards he plays it is his choice. Keep the bad
> player and put the good player on tilt, without being a complete a$$hole

this is the internet. the maturity level is low and trying to get a player to stop berating people is impossible(live is diffcult too). the only thing you can do is say nothing. you can email a compliant or if live, you can take the floorman aside (even when ive done this, nothing is ever done or accomplished, btw)
this is just my opinion. if people want try other methods, go ahead, i just see no point. years of seeing this has taught me this

-----------------------------------------------------
"I prefer talking with old persons of the female sex who peddle family gossip; next, with the insane-and last, with very sensible people" -S. Kierkegaard
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Re: What would you have done?, shorn, 22. Oct 2003 07:17
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Try to challenge the good player and redirect his anger at you. This way the bad player will feel better and stay and you can take advantage of both of them...tilt boy good player and calling station bad player. I iew these as great opportunites.
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Re: What would you have done?, Palinya, 22. Oct 2003 08:30
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last night someone at my table told someone it was 'really bad form' to play the cards that they did.

I told him it wasn't nearly as bad as telling others how to play... it shut him up for a while but about half an hour later the same guy took down a pot with a T2o or something like that and the berater started up again.
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Re: What would you have done?, modestmice, 22. Oct 2003 08:33
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on 22. Oct 2003 08:30 Palinya wrote:
> last night someone at my table told someone it was 'really bad form' to play the
> cards that they did.
>
> I told him it wasn't nearly as bad as telling others how to play... it shut him up
> for a while but about half an hour later the same guy took down a pot with a T2o or
> something like that and the berater started up again.

my experience exactly...
: )

-----------------------------------------------------
"I prefer talking with old persons of the female sex who peddle family gossip; next, with the insane-and last, with very sensible people" -S. Kierkegaard
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Re: What would you have done?, Angel, 22. Oct 2003 08:41
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What to say when they say:
"That was the stupidest move I've ever seen at a poker table."

a) "You ain't been playing poker very long have you?"
b) "You should pay more attention."
c) "Do you mean, before you said anything?"
d) "I'll trust your knowledge of stupid on that."
e) "I don't think he can hear you; stacking your chips is making way too much noise."
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Re: What would you have done?, modestmice, 22. Oct 2003 08:45
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on 22. Oct 2003 08:41 Angel wrote:
> What to say when they say:
> "That was the stupidest move I've ever seen at a poker table."
>
> a) "You ain't been playing poker very long have you?"
> b) "You should pay more attention."
> c) "Do you mean, before you said anything?"
> d) "I'll trust your knowledge of stupid on that."
> e) "I don't think he can hear you; stacking your chips is making way too much noise."

f) nothing, i let my playing do the talking

-----------------------------------------------------
"I prefer talking with old persons of the female sex who peddle family gossip; next, with the insane-and last, with very sensible people" -S. Kierkegaard
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Re: What would you have done?, Angel, 22. Oct 2003 08:48
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on 22. Oct 2003 08:45 modestmice wrote:
> on 22. Oct 2003 08:41 Angel wrote:
> > What to say when they say:
> > "That was the stupidest move I've ever seen at a poker table."
> >
> > a) "You ain't been playing poker very long have you?"
> > b) "You should pay more attention."
> > c) "Do you mean, before you said anything?"
> > d) "I'll trust your knowledge of stupid on that."
> > e) "I don't think he can hear you; stacking your chips is making way too much noise."
>
> f) nothing, i let my playing do the talking
>
The post was in jest. I like your response best too.
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Re: What would you have done?, modestmice, 22. Oct 2003 08:50
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on 22. Oct 2003 08:48 Angel wrote:
> on 22. Oct 2003 08:45 modestmice wrote:
> > on 22. Oct 2003 08:41 Angel wrote:
> > > What to say when they say:
> > > "That was the stupidest move I've ever seen at a poker table."
> > >
> > > a) "You ain't been playing poker very long have you?"
> > > b) "You should pay more attention."
> > > c) "Do you mean, before you said anything?"
> > > d) "I'll trust your knowledge of stupid on that."
> > > e) "I don't think he can hear you; stacking your chips is making way too much noise."
> >
> > f) nothing, i let my playing do the talking
> >
> The post was in jest. I like your response best too.

i know it was it jest, im a jester
: )

-----------------------------------------------------
"I prefer talking with old persons of the female sex who peddle family gossip; next, with the insane-and last, with very sensible people" -S. Kierkegaard
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Re: What would you have done?, shorn, 22. Oct 2003 09:21
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Angel-

I LOVE the last two!

Steve
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Re: What would you have done?, Bart Mann, 22. Oct 2003 10:58
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I was playing in a $5 buy-in (extremely casual) SNG at UB.com a few nights ago, and the exact same thing happened. One guy who apparently thought he was Johnny F'ing Chan player got severely rivered by another player at the table on an all-in bet. "Great" player has AK, other guy has 22. Preflop raising comes and goes, then the flop comes out A-K-10. Guy with AK bets big, guy with 22 raises back, and guy with AK pushes all in. Guy with 22 calls the all-in bet. Turn comes 8, River comes 2. "Great" player is rivered big-time with a set of deuces. What followed was so funny that I actually saved the chat. I'm pasting it below (handles removed to protect the innocent):

AK Guy: "that was a pathetic call"
AK Guy: "ridiculous"
AK Guy: "stupid"
AK Guy: "your a horrible player"
AK Guy: "what the **** are you doing?"
AK Guy: "your a weak player"
AK Guy: "you dont belong at a poker table"
AK Guy: "you should go to Vegas and play the **** slots"

22 Guy: "I won and you didnt"

Priceless.
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Re: What would you have done?, Schuster, 22. Oct 2003 12:57
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"Hey man, Q4o has been on a lucky streak lately. I saw my buddy drag a $200 pot with it not more than an hour ago! If a hand is hot, you have to play it!"

Lee
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Re: What would you have done?, Blue Sky, 22. Oct 2003 16:46
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Most of the players that I have encountered that berate others for their mistakes are usually bad players themselves. I like to keep in mind a couple of "lucky" hands on everyone at the table and when they start berating another person I throw out a comment about "everyone gets lucky once in awhile" If they keep up, bring up their "lucky" hand. It usually shuts them up.

The other two options are to use humor to settle down the tilted jackass or to make a comment (issue dependent) that others at the table will hopefully recongize as a jab at the tilted player and then they will hopefully add to it as a gang of 9 vs. the tilted player. This was the fish feels like everyone is with him and against the tilted player.
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