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Server Time: 10/12/2008 4:43:29 AM PACIFIC |
 contradiction in my playing, Blade, 20. Oct 2003 21:27 | ||
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| Tonight I played two hands that worked out well but I can't come up with a logical reason to explain the possible contradiction in my play. Hand 1 I get 55 from UTG and fold. Hand is raised and reraised preflop....Yahoo!!! Hand 2 I have 77 from 3rd position, UTG calls, 2nd folds, I call. I get 6 callers total and make the set on the flop and win the hand. This was semi loose passive table. The hands were about 30 minutes apart with the same players. My problem is with my call of the 77 from 3rd position. In low limit I have a hard time seeing a difference between 55 and 77. I did have better position but it was still early. My gut is telling me bad play. The outcomes could have easily been reversed. Thoughts? Am I right to be suspicious of my play? Oh and 1 request, I have read Lee Jones and every Skalansky book so please do not use these and reason alone for justifying my play. The books are great and have helped me immensly but I would like/need more in depth reasoning than "LJ says call with 77 from early position." | ||
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| Re: contradiction in my playing, Schuster, 20. Oct 2003 21:51 | ||
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| You are definatley right to be suspicous. I need to think about it more, and then hopefully I'll give a little bit more of an insightfull answer. Lee | ||
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| Re: contradiction in my playing, Formless, 20. Oct 2003 21:57 | ||
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| I think position is less relevant in low limit games because there is no battle for the blinds. | ||
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| Re: contradiction in my playing, Poker God, 20. Oct 2003 22:18 | ||
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| i would have played the 2 hands the same. i go with caros research that 2s 3s 4s and 5s are not profitable in the long run from early position. the 7s are borderline but are usually playable from there if its folded to you or better if you have that caller in between you and the blinds. | ||
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| Re: contradiction in my playing, KJo, 20. Oct 2003 22:34 | ||
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| I'm glad you precluded us from going to Jones and Sklansky- it's a lazy answer to use those strictly. 77 from 3rd position and 55 from UTG are OK enough to play at a loose passive table, IMO. Anytime you're getting several callers for one bet pre-flop you're in good shape, but you already knew that. I like your decisions, going in with the 77 when one person has already called makes it safer. Folding the 55 UTG when you would be the first one in is also correct- you're flying blind with a call. Both decisions are borderline by nature- but if you trust your read of the table and trust your gut (most important), and you factor in the importance of mixing it up, then I think you're OK with both moves. Eli > > Hand 2 I have 77 from 3rd position, UTG calls, 2nd folds, I call. I get 6 > callers total and make the set on the flop and win the hand. > > This was semi loose passive table. The hands were about 30 minutes apart with > the same players. > > My problem is with my call of the 77 from 3rd position. In low limit I have a > hard time seeing a difference between 55 and 77. I did have better position but > it was still early. My gut is telling me bad play. > > The outcomes could have easily been reversed. > > Thoughts? Am I right to be suspicious of my play? > > Oh and 1 request, I have read Lee Jones and every Skalansky book so please do > not use these and reason alone for justifying my play. The books are great and > have helped me immensly but I would like/need more in depth reasoning than "LJ > says call with 77 from early position." | ||
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| Re: contradiction in my playing, Risky Business, 21. Oct 2003 10:30 | ||
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| Hey Eli - I keep sending you the WSOP stuff, but it keeps getting returned, and I'm simply replying to your email to me. (It works for everyone but you) | ||
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| Re: contradiction in my playing, KJo, 21. Oct 2003 14:07 | ||
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| Which address did I give you, Yahoo or Lgecorp? The latter was down until this morning, somebody in our company f'd up. It should be working fine now. Eli on 21. Oct 2003 10:30 Risky Business wrote: > Hey Eli - I keep sending you the WSOP stuff, but it keeps getting returned, and I'm simply > replying to your email to me. (It works for everyone but you) | ||
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| Re: contradiction in my playing, mkpoker, 20. Oct 2003 22:46 | ||
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| I think you played both fine. As KJo and others noted, both are borderline calls and I doubt anyone would criticize too much if you either folded or played both hands. There are two key differences, though, that suggest a fold was correct in the first hand and a call was correct in the second. 1. 77 is MARGINALLY higher than 55. Obviously, it's not a huge difference, but if you do flop a set, 55 will probably be bottom set while 77 will probably be middle set. 2. 3rd position (in hand 2) is MARGINALLY better than UTG position (hand 1). Again, not a huge difference, but in hand #2 you've already got one caller and two fewer opportunities for players to raise behind you. Obviously, both differences are extremely slight, but both point toward a slightly better situation for you in hand #2 than in hand #1. | ||
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| Re: contradiction in my playing, PairTheBoard, 21. Oct 2003 10:55 | ||
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| Well, if 55's are ok then why not 44's? Or 33's. Or 22's. The cuttoff's got to be somewhere. Here's a thought. 7/5 = 140%, so 77's are 40% better than 55's. | ||
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| Re: contradiction in my playing, Blade, 21. Oct 2003 13:10 | ||
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| Yeah that was pretty much my thinking as well | ||
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| Re: contradiction in my playing, Stevolley2, 21. Oct 2003 11:45 | ||
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| Were the decisions made because of the "mood" of the table? Were the desision made because of your image? | ||
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| Re: contradiction in my playing, Blade, 21. Oct 2003 13:09 | ||
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| No on both I was fairly new to the table. The folding of the 55 was the easier decision. When I got the 77 from 3rd, it was a borderline call and after thinking I decided to call. Afterwards though I thought about it more and it seemed like a contradiction. I have since run numorous wilson sim's which I will post the results for as soon as I get home from work. | ||
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