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Server Time: 7/30/2010 5:36:56 PM PACIFIC |
 BECOMING PRO!, MoTownJ5, 18. Oct 2003 15:10 | ||
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| I ran a search nothing came up so I decided to ask. What is the best advice that any of you pro's or any of you can suggest. Here's my mini bio. Im 19 yrs. old been playing on campus and some online poker. I've been playing poker for 6 yrs. but just started playing HE 6 months ago. | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, Rick B., 18. Oct 2003 15:35 | ||
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| You just have become a "Pro", I don't believe one can start out to be a "Pro", one backs into it. Play for money (that's "Pro"), keep records (that's "Pro"), and maybe the best thing is not to start BRAGGING, until you win WSOP. Maybe not then even. Rick B | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, ADAM THE EXPERT, 18. Oct 2003 16:34 | ||
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| ONE, DON'T QUIT YOUR COLLEGE CAREER. PLAYING POKER FOR A LIVING, WITHOUT SOME OTHER SOURCE OF INCOME, IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE OTHER SOURCES OF INCOME, EVEN IF IT'S A SMALL AMOUNT. LAST NIGHT, I HAD MY FIRST LOSS, IN FIVE WEEKS, AND I'M IN VERY POOR SPIRITS. BUT, MY OTHER (SMALL) INCOME, PAYS FOR MY RENT AND FOOD, SO THERE IS NO PRESSURE FOR ME TO PLAY. i'LL PROBABLY TAKE A FEW DAYS OFF. IF YOU ARE PRESSURED TO WIN, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO DO SO. SO . . . . . . TAKE OFF THE PRESSURE. PLAY GAMES THAT ARE VERY SMALL, RELATIVE TO YOUR BANKROLL. HAVE ANOTHER INCOME, SO YOU NEVER NEED TO WIN. AND, DON'T EVER PLAY ABOVE YOUR BANKROLL | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, 4 POKER, 18. Oct 2003 17:05 | ||
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| I agree with Adam. If you play above your bankroll, the pressures that you put upon yourself, can make it difficult to play optimal poker. It can cause a player to play scared poker, and that wouldn't be a good thing. I also feel that you should always have another source of income when you're just trying to see if 'the whole poker thing" can really be something that you could conceivably make a living at. That's how I started out, and for me, I felt that I made a responsible decision because I took everything into consideration, first. And you really should give yourself a back-up plan just in case. I think if you can leave as many doors open as possible, then playing poker to see if you can suppliment your already existing income, would be the most advantagous way to start out, and then take it from there. Don't give up a college education, though. You have many years ahead of you. Eduaction first.... (just my opinion). 4P- | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, shutupndeal, 18. Oct 2003 19:30 | ||
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| Wow I hate this question. Not from you "Mo", no not you at all but Im getting up there now and I have seen this question just once too many times by now I guess. Anyway, if anyone told you ANYTHING other than get your schooling done first they are totally nuts. The thing about being a good successful player is to have the money to get you through the rough times when they come and to do this most of us have a second income from somewhere. Maybe you will never use it BUT God forbid if your a human like most of us theres a ton of dumb things we like to do like one day grab the ENTIRE NUT (all your cash) and jump into a No Limit game! lol One bad idea is all it takes and most of us are capable of making a bunch of bad ideas per day so just one over the course of time doesnt seem like much but its enough to take you down and out of the loop when your playing for a living Ok? Now, hopefully you can even do something like grab a small part-time job during college and somewhere find the time, maybe Sundays (if you promise yourself to get all your school work done by Sat nite) that you can use to play with if there is poker in your area. If not and the online version is the only thing availble to you then either change colleges to UNLV, ....LMAO, Just Kidding and dont you DARE!! Anyway Sunday could be like you reward and day to relax all wrapped into one, a treat if you will to say "Good man," Im being responsible and I deserve this!" Get playing into low limits at a "B+M" casino would be my advice and be prepared to lose. Read books, the local library may or may not have them. Believe it or not theres a LOT of players in a low limit casino game that will talk strategy and teach you things right during a game, hell half of these guys will be so flattered that you asked them for advice that they will love it. SOME PEOPLE will not want to talk and some dont like "teaching" at the table but just tell em that you thought this was a lower limit game and that the pros were over there in the 20-40, 30-60 games and your so sorry if you bothered Pro Players?? Lol! Alvarado, and Lee Jones are the authors to 2 books that you will find enlightening although dont take Jones starting hands suggesstions to heart as they are a bit too......... aah, youll see for yourself cuz you WILL be reading these if you want to learn to play. Constantly make notes about your play and ask questions of yourself and here at the forums. Find out if you did something right or did it feel wrong, did I play it right and lost....if so why? Come in and ask or get the answer. Research, basically on Sunday if your not playing you work on your game BUT neglect that schoolwork NEVER for this as College comes once in a life and Poker can ALWAYS be learnt and played Ok? The Best times of your life are slowly aproaching Mo, take them all in but make damned sure in life you dont "put yourself, All-In" Me | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, Eman, 20. Oct 2003 11:37 | ||
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| You only live once!!!! I think you should take whatever money you have and goto your local B&M or casino and see what you can do. If you quit school you can always go back later in life. Start now and build your bankroll. Play as much as possible right now. Your 19 and very young, now is the time to build up your poker skills....GO FOR IT | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, Victor, 20. Oct 2003 15:39 | ||
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| Well, if you're tired of having fun playing poker then turn Pro .. that will take most of the fun out of it. It becomes your "job" and how many jobs do you know of where you can go to work and LOSE all your $ ? Seriously, it's extremely difficult to make a living playing poker .. if not, we'd all do it. Maybe 2 or 3% of those that try survive the st year. Enjoy your poker ... FINISH SCHOOL and good luck to you | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, palman, 22. Oct 2003 21:41 | ||
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| My personal plan (1 year of school left) is to finish my masters.... work a few years (to help the resume if poker doesnt work out) save up enough money to live for a year outside my poker bankroll, and take my bankroll and give it a shot. Worst case scenario is I run out of my bankroll in that year, and still have the money to get by and just go back to accounting (you can leave an accounting job and get a new one rather easily) | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, MozMan, 22. Oct 2003 21:46 | ||
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| That's actually a pretty good plan. I know a guy who works for three years, saves up as much money as he can, then takes all of his savings, quits his job, travels around the world for a year, then gets a job for another three years. He's been on 3 trips since getting his masters degree, and is a year into his current job. He lives really, really cheaply, tho... -Moz "That's excellent. We knew you'd agree. The companies will be very pleased." | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, Blade, 23. Oct 2003 00:59 | ||
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| Palman, I work in Public Accounting right now (big 4) and I am leaving to go pro in March. What do you do in accounting? My plan is pretty similar. Good luck | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, Mark Gregorich, 22. Oct 2003 22:44 | ||
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| I'm 33 and have been a full time pro player in Las Vegas since I was 25. A few comments: * Finish school! The more options you leave yourself with, the better off you are. I went to college and actually used my degree for 3 years (teaching high school) before becoming a full-time player. I did play poker fairly seriously while teaching, though, during summers and on weekends. This gave me a clue that I might be able to make it. * Evaluate your risk tolerance, and choose games accordingly, should you decide to go pro. What I mean by this is that some people don't mind going broke if they have a chance to make a big score. I'm not one of them, but I see where they're coming from. Personally, I choose games which are well within my bankroll (which may cost me money, but also saves me a lot of stress). For a young single person, taking a shot in a big game is more ok than it is for me (I'm married and support 5 people with my poker income). *It isn't just a game anymore when you're playing professionally. This need to win makes the game a living hell for many trying to be pros. Its not always easy to win, even if you're the most skilled player in the game. That said, I still love to play poker and have no regrets about my decision to be a pro. * You need to possess a great deal of self-discipline, as well as the ability to objectively analyze a situation (recognizing your limitations in a game, as well as the strengths and weaknesses of your opponents) or you've got no shot to make it. * It isn't important to post a win every day, so don't get in the habit of chasing your losses in bad games when you're tired, or of locking up wins in good games. This is a practice which a huge percentage of the so-called pros in Vegas employ, and its just dead wrong. Play when you have the best of it, and quit when you don't. Don't worry about how you're doing today, because if you follow the advice in the previous sentence, you'll be doing just fine at the end of the year. Hope this is helpful; Mark Gregorich | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, 4 POKER, 22. Oct 2003 23:11 | ||
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| Hi Mark- You touched base on some very important issues, and in particular, I found the last few statements that you made are ones that really need to be digested fully. Well stated post Mark. 4P- on 22. Oct 2003 22:44 Mark Gregorich wrote: > I'm 33 and have been a full time pro player in Las Vegas since I was 25. A few > comments: > > * Finish school! The more options you leave yourself with, the better off you are. > I went to college and actually used my degree for 3 years (teaching high school) > before becoming a full-time player. I did play poker fairly seriously while > teaching, though, during summers and on weekends. This gave me a clue that I might > be able to make it. > > * Evaluate your risk tolerance, and choose games accordingly, should you decide to > go pro. What I mean by this is that some people don't mind going broke if they have > a chance to make a big score. I'm not one of them, but I see where they're coming > from. Personally, I choose games which are well within my bankroll (which may cost > me money, but also saves me a lot of stress). For a young single person, taking a > shot in a big game is more ok than it is for me (I'm married and support 5 people > with my poker income). > > *It isn't just a game anymore when you're playing professionally. This need to win > makes the game a living hell for many trying to be pros. Its not always easy to win, > even if you're the most skilled player in the game. That said, I still love to play > poker and have no regrets about my decision to be a pro. > > * You need to possess a great deal of self-discipline, as well as the ability to > objectively analyze a situation (recognizing your limitations in a game, as well as > the strengths and weaknesses of your opponents) or you've got no shot to make it. > > * It isn't important to post a win every day, so don't get in the habit of chasing > your losses in bad games when you're tired, or of locking up wins in good games. > This is a practice which a huge percentage of the so-called pros in Vegas employ, and > its just dead wrong. Play when you have the best of it, and quit when you don't. > Don't worry about how you're doing today, because if you follow the advice in the > previous sentence, you'll be doing just fine at the end of the year. > > Hope this is helpful; > > Mark Gregorich > | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, timmer, 23. Oct 2003 11:20 | ||
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| More great words from Mark G., heed them they are sage advice. I'd like to add, not developing multiple revenue streams is a Monster hole in your game. Life is a game, Play Hard (but have fun too) ! :-D | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, Mike Kovner, 23. Oct 2003 07:45 | ||
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| For all the people that suggest working for a few years out of college to build a resume and a money to live on if the bankroll goes away, I have a question: What do you guys think of becoming a dealer/semi-pro until you find out if you can make it (then quit being a dealer) or you can't make it(and continue being a dealer if you like it, or take your college degree and do something related to that). I figure this option allows you to have income other than poker so you're not putting it all on the line, but surrounds you in the game of poker so that even while you're working you're near a game of poker(while you may not be playing, you could practice reading hands and opponents). If you decide neither poker nor dealing are the way for you to go, I'd think you'd figure this out within a year, and thats not too much time out of college that you businesses would reject you. | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, Mark Gregorich, 23. Oct 2003 09:43 | ||
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| This has worked for several successful pros, among them David Chiu and Layne Flack (I think Johnny Chan too, but I'm not sure) Mark | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, Mike Kovner, 23. Oct 2003 15:00 | ||
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| Obviously basing decisions on "well, the pros did it!" is not such a great idea. Do you think having a job as a dealer while you try to make it would reduce the risk in trying to go pro? | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, Mark Gregorich, 24. Oct 2003 00:04 | ||
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| Depending on your expenses and bankroll, I think having a job during an "experimental period" may be a good idea, as it doesn't force you to rely solely on poker winnings to survive. However, if you are well-bankrolled and don't have a high cost of living, the job is probably irrelevant if you want to see how you'd do playing poker full time. A job dealing poker would likely help your game, if you are able to study the better players as you are dealing (I never dealt, so I'm not sure how much time in the box one actually has to dedicate to their own poker growth). Either way, a dealing job would probably help aquaint you better to the daily cardroom environment, possibly helping you decide whether its where you want to spend a good deal of time or not. Mark | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, Phish, 28. Oct 2003 10:01 | ||
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| My opinion: I don't know what stakes you're playing right now, but unless you're playing and consistently beating the 20/40 game, don't even think about turning 'pro'. Instead, continue your education and start a career. Play poker in your spare time. Develop your game. When you can get to the stage where you're winning consistently (bet/hour) at 20/40 AND your other career prospects aren't too hot, then you can think about turning 'pro'. But I think that playing 20/40 full-time is probably a real drag, since you'll have to work 2000 hours a year to make 50-80K (players who can make more than that at 20/40 would probably play higher). It's a real drag and I can imagine the burn-out rate. In my opinion, the thought of turning pro is really only appealing if you can consistently beat 50/100 and higher. Now you can make more than most careers could offer at fewer hours. You can be more game-selective and only play 1000-1500 hours a year and maybe make 100-150K. And because you're playing fewer hours, and being game selective allows you to play in better games (say short-handed if that's your preference), the burn-out factor is much reduced. And you can build up a cushion to take a couple of months off if so desire. So bottom line: when I hear all these kids wanting to turn pro cause they're been beating the 3/6 game for 6 months, I'm thinking 'BIG MISTAKE.' Develop your skills as an 'amateur.' Turn pro only when you've shown you can do it. | ||
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| Re: BECOMING PRO!, mrbishop, 4. Nov 2003 11:58 | ||
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| This is an interesting saga of a guy who sees himself as a semi-pro. Might help, might not, but still good reading, the guy is a good writer. http://apokerodyssey.blogspot.com/ | ||
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