|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 3/21/2010 7:55:00 AM PACIFIC |
 Raising out donations., Angel, 18. Oct 2003 15:03 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Although this problem arises in NL most frequently, I have run into the problem in limit as well and am interested in others take on the phenomena and what you feel the best course of action is. In a recent tight $20/$40 game I found myself in the BB with AA. The field folded around to the button (a very weak player) who limped, the small blind called and I was faced with a decision. Despite the buttons position and investment - if I raise I know that he will throw away. The SB is a fairly OK player but will muck if we lose the button. I want to take a flop heads up - and rather not have two players along for the ride. Well, this isn't Burger King - I can't have it my way; I can limp and see a flop 3-handed or I can raise and with immediately. I raised but am reconsidering whether that was correct or not. I still believe it is correct to raise in this spot because when I have opponents that timid - they aren't going to give me any action on the flop either unless they flop a monster. I know that Roy has talked about this before - particularly about limping with AA to induce action in a tight game but I win $60 with a raise now rather than just $30 that would be the blinds. Thoughts? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Raising out donations., Schuster, 18. Oct 2003 15:18 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| The button is really timid enough to call one bet but throw it away for one more? I'd raise here a lot, and *might* even show him the AA, and then do the same thing a lot more often. If he's weak enough to throw it away for one more bet, take advantage while you can. In the situation with AA, I think raising is the way to go. If you aren't going to get any action unless you are behind, then take the money without giving them the chance. Better to win a small pot and such... Lee | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Raising out donations., Angel, 18. Oct 2003 15:31 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Lee, Hi ya doing? Yes, the button is that timid. Not speculation either - I raised and he did throw away. I agree that raising is correct - but I'm up to re-evaluating it. It's easy to get into ruts of thinking and if we're not willing to take out our beliefs and hold them up to the light of day for inspection once in a while.... That's what I like about the forum; I'm likely to think the same old thoughts I've always thought - but around here you're likely to get alot of opinions. Even the one's which are clearly incorrect have value because I have to examine my thought processes to determine that they are wrong. Anywho - thanks for responding, always nice hearing you weigh in on a topic. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Raising out donations., Schuster, 18. Oct 2003 16:09 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Angel, I'm doing pretty good, thanks! I'm curious, did you happen to raise in similar situations with other hands, and if so, how did he react? It's just pretty surprising that an opponent would play this way. He's really just asking for it. And I agree completely about the forum, I know it's made my game a lot better. Lee | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Raising out donations., Angel, 18. Oct 2003 16:22 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Lee, Yes, I had been raising with quite alot of hands actualy - taking advantage of the nature of this particular game and this particular opponent. The button was never going to raise me unless he had AA or KK - I had too frequently 3-bet him in this position and shown him a winner down the line. I suspect that he limped with a hand like ATo, KTs or something like this. Something that he's praying I'll let him in to see a flop with and then panicing and mucking if he's raised. I'm not suggesting that this is normal or acceptable play - just describing his play. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Raising out donations., PairTheBoard, 18. Oct 2003 16:57 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| This may be a situation where neither option is that much better than the other. I don't think we should be afraid to experiment a little and see what happens. Actually, I've been trying a few limps with AA in situations where I feel I won't get action with a raise. Some have worked out well. Some have gotten no action after the flop. The one I remember the most is where the blind flopped two pair with a 47. I got plenty of action on that one. Something else to consider. How will checking the Aces here affect future steal moves against these players? A lot of what I say here is stuff I feel like I should be trying to do. I'm saying it for myself as much as for anyone else. I am most interested in comments that may refute my mistaken notions. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Raising out donations., PairTheBoard, 18. Oct 2003 15:42 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I can't see not raising after two opponents have already invested in the pot. Who knows, the button could have limped with KK. It seems to me you have a better chance of getting them interested in the pot if you can get one or both to call a raise. It's frustrating, but sometimes your Aces come in situations where they are just not worth much no matter what you try to do with them. If you have been taking advantage of those players' timidity prior to getting the Aces they may be ready to look you up a little. If you haven't been attacking their timidity then the play for this situation was missed before it even arose. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Raising out donations., Roy Cooke, 18. Oct 2003 16:45 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hi Angel I raise....If I win it right there, then so be it....If my opponents are that tight (to throw it away), I feel I would be unlikely to create much high expectation action by playing my hand in a deceptive manner. Deceptive plays play well when they create action that you would otherwise have avoided that has a high degree of edge. In this case you are probably better off guaranteeing yourself $40 rather than having to play the hand and possibly lose to a hand that would have folded. Assuming you are correct that they would fold, you have either added $40 to your expectation field (should they fold) or the expectation advantage of playing the hand three handed for one bet and any positive expectation you can add with later betting. Keep in mind you can lose, be outflopped and get money in bad, ect..... The Recurring sum of the volume you bet times the edge you bet it at equals your expectation over the course of time....Eventually your expectation will equal your earn. I understand the concept is complicated.....But if you can play your hands effectively with that concept in mind, you are well on your way to World Class Play. Life is good :-) Roy Cooke on 18. Oct 2003 15:03 Angel wrote: > Although this problem arises in NL most frequently, I have run into the problem > in limit as well and am interested in others take on the phenomena and what you > feel the best course of action is. > > In a recent tight $20/$40 game I found myself in the BB with AA. The field > folded around to the button (a very weak player) who limped, the small blind > called and I was faced with a decision. Despite the buttons position and > investment - if I raise I know that he will throw away. The SB is a fairly OK > player but will muck if we lose the button. I want to take a flop heads up - > and rather not have two players along for the ride. Well, this isn't Burger > King - I can't have it my way; I can limp and see a flop 3-handed or I can raise > and with immediately. I raised but am reconsidering whether that was correct or > not. I still believe it is correct to raise in this spot because when I have > opponents that timid - they aren't going to give me any action on the flop > either unless they flop a monster. I know that Roy has talked about this before > - particularly about limping with AA to induce action in a tight game but I win > $60 with a raise now rather than just $30 that would be the blinds. Thoughts? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network | Find Vancouver Businesses |
|