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Server Time: 9/6/2008 10:14:53 AM PACIFIC |
 Comments on this strategy please..., Kymmer, 17. Oct 2003 07:37 | ||
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| I found this selection below in an article "The Key to Success in Hold Ems" by Edward Hutchison on poker777.com by clicking the 'online poker' link on the 'About' page here at UPF. I am curious to know what you Pros (& Ams) think about this particular beginners strategy: STEP ONE: Add the value of your two cards using this scale: Ace= 16 pts. King= 14 pts. Queen= 13 pts. Jack= 12 pts. Ten= 11 pts. all other cards are worth their face value, e.g., a two is 2 pts., a nine is 9 pts. STEP TWO: If your two cards are paired, add 10 points to the total. STEP THREE: If your two cards are both of the same suit, add four points. STEP FOUR: If your cards are connected (i.e., next to each other in rank, as with a Jack and Ten, a Jack and a Queen, etc.) add three points. STEP FIVE: If your cards have a one card "gap" (e.g., a Queen and a Ten, a Jack and a Nine, or an Ace and a Queen, etc.) add two points. STEP SIX: If your cards have a two-card "gap" (e.g., an Ace and a Jack, a Queen and a Nine, or a Jack and an Eight, etc.) add one point. ANY HAND THAT TOTALS 30 POINTS OR MORE IS A PREMIUM HAND AND CAN BE PLAYED FROM ANY POSITION IF THERE IS NO RAISE. TO RAISE YOURSELF OR TO CALL A RAISE YOU NEED TO HAVE A 34 POINT HAND IF YOU ARE IN EARLY POSITION, A 31 POINT HAND IN MIDDLE POSITION, AND A 29 POINT HAND WHEN IN LATE POSITION. By limiting yourself to these hands you will always be playing premium hands. Monte-Carlo type simulations prove that any hand that earns 30 or more pts. under this system will win at least 17% of the hands in a ten-handed game. A random hand, of course, will win 10% of the time under Monte-Carlo conditions where every hand is played to the finish (i.e., to the "river). Thus, a 30 pt. hand will win at a rate about 70% above chance expectations and this should provide novice Hold 'Em players a margin of safety as they progress in developing the other skills necessary for greater success in this interesting and complex game. | ||
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| Re: Comments on this strategy please..., grant pittman, 17. Oct 2003 07:55 | ||
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| Kymmer this isn't much of a strategy. More so, it is someone's attempt to approach the game from some strange mathematically governed ranking system. The problem with this approach is that it removes the human element completely from the game. If you don't understand people and what makes them tick, you will have very limited success in this game regardless of what limit you play. I think it is a serious long term error to take the human element from the teaching of the game even at a beginner level. I say this because it will be so hard to "fit it in later" once a beginner learns some basics and gets comfortable with the game. In my mind, it would be like taking a 16 year old to a drivers examination when they had never driven a car before and explaining to them about driving on the way to the test. Just my thoughts. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: Comments on this strategy please..., McMonkey, 17. Oct 2003 08:04 | ||
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| While I agree with you, grant, I have to say that if this is viewed not as a conprehensive strategy and instead as a pre-flop guide for the beginner who is actively learning those other elements it does have some value. Even if a person is taught all about every factor of a poker game it will take some time before they learn how to practically apply it in a real game. During that learning period if they have a guide to refer to in order to keep from giving in to the natrual tendency to loosen up I think it is to that player's benefit. Then, as the player learns about other factors, s/he can deviate from the basic tight strategy when the situation dictates. | ||
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| Re: Comments on this strategy please..., McMonkey, 17. Oct 2003 07:58 | ||
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| When I first started and didn't quite have the knowledge/self restraint to keep myself from playing any pretty looking hand I used this exact system pre-flop. I forced myself to stick to it while I learned about the other factors at the table (reading hands/table texture/position/stack size). This gave me a great head-start because as we know or have seen posted around here numerous times, the number one mistake a beginner makes is playing too loose. If you're just starting out (or even if you've been playing a while and find yourself on tilt or just too loose) this system is a good way to get back on track pre-flop. | ||
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| Re: Comments on this strategy please..., Flatout_Mainiac, 17. Oct 2003 08:01 | ||
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| Any system that will lead you to playing good starting cards in the proper position is good until you develop a strong understanding as to why you play a certain hand from a certain position in a certain texture of game. Personally, that system is too confusing to me as I have to pretty much count on my fingers to make sure I have a straight (just kidding on this one but I wonder if I could use that as a reverse tell). | ||
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| Re: Comments on this strategy please..., McMonkey, 17. Oct 2003 08:07 | ||
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| I have to say that even though I can grasp high level mathematical concepts, I too have to stop and count a lot of the time to determine if I have a straight. I have to really be careful in the B&M not to count on my fingers. Glad I'm not the only one. | ||
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| Re: Comments on this strategy please..., shorn, 17. Oct 2003 08:13 | ||
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| I think this is too restrictive and completely ignores the most important part of pre-flop play which is "Why should I play a certain hand in a certain situation?" Frankly, saying to yourself that it is OK to call a 3 raises pre-flop because you have a hand that has a value of greater than 34 is ridiculous in my mind. Knowing what hands are "good" preflop (beginner or not) has much more to do with the type of game you are in (loose, tight, passive, aggressive) as well as your position and relative position to others at the table. 83o which would have a value of 11 in this system would never be played. But, in the right situation (say on the button with very tight blind players who fold more than 50% of the time), this is a RAISING hand. I agree that strucuture can be good as long as it is applied to learning what hands are good to play WHNE and WHERE. But, any system that is inherently black or white in determining pre-flop decisions will lead you to be a loser long run. | ||
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| Re: Comments on this strategy please..., Formless, 17. Oct 2003 08:49 | ||
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| Point count systems are inherently bad, I haven't seen a good one for Holdem yet, but if you want to play Omaha 8 then Hutchison's Omaha 8 point count system is a good basic strategy for total newbies. | ||
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| Re: Comments on this strategy please..., Phish, 17. Oct 2003 10:37 | ||
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| In addition to all the previous criticism, this point-count thing looks way too complicated to learn. Fact is, a basic pre-flop strategy isn't all that tough to devise: BIG cards are good. Give some additional weight to suited cards and position, and tighten up when it's raised. These simple rules of thumb'll probably serve a beginner as well if not better than the point-count thing. | ||
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| Re: Comments on this strategy please..., chasepoker, 17. Oct 2003 10:59 | ||
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| As Shorn points out a much better way of a newcomers strategy for hold em is spend ten minutes learning why you should play each type of hand and the value of position. If you can teach someone to play tight up front, looser at the back, to play big cards heads up and drawing hands with lots of people in the pot then i believe a newcomer to the game will learn a lot more. Poker is just too complex a game to teach by rote but i believe a basic understanding of hand values is much more help to someone who has never played before than a ' formula ' Saying all that i was learning pot limit Omaha8 by a formula table and that helped but i think that Omaha8 is a game where your preflop cards define your hand more than hold em. Chasepoker | ||
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