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Server Time: 10/15/2008 11:39:06 PM PACIFIC |
 Why play with the best?, johnny, 17. Oct 2003 06:32 | ||
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| A friend of mine took a two week trip to AC when they were having those big tournaments about a month ago. He mentioned he saw Sklansky and Ivey sitting at a $400/$800 table with four or five other pros. I was thinking about this, and started wondering why anyone (including the people at the table) would want to sit there. It seems to me that luck would play a big part in this game since all the players are so good. To a degree, their skill cancels out. Am I thinking ridiculously or making a good point? Thanks, Johnny. | ||
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| Re: Why play with the best?, grant pittman, 17. Oct 2003 07:34 | ||
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| Good post John. This is a very common scene in high limit poker everywhere. 4 or 5 strong players sitting together playing for lots of money banging heads. From the outside looking in it may look crazy but I guarantee you if you were to ask each of these players who was the "spot" in the game they would point at each other. This, of course, is their egos talking and is why the game exists in a lot of cases. There are some "all business" players, if they are sitting in a tough lineup playing for big $$$$$, that are there for a reason and the reason is usually just one player. I can assure you that when this player goes empty or quits these "all business" players I am talking about will quit the game also. A lot of the time these top players can't quit when they are stuck and so they battle it out with anyone who is willing, regardless of talent level. Lots of strong players go broke at high limits simply because the edge is so small in talent and short term luck plays such a big part in the results. I have seen games where the players keep kicking up the limit until none of them are properly bankrolled and they bang heads until one or two of them get the money and the rest go broke. Lots of times it won't be the best players who end up with the money in this "sprint", but the player(s) who ran the best. Just a thought. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: Why play with the best?, noiseboy, 17. Oct 2003 12:37 | ||
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| Well, if you are Phil Ivey, maybe "other pros" look like a great game. I'm not sure how Sklansky does short handed against someone as aggressive as Ivey, for some reason, I see him as someone who would do better in a full ring. Then again, either one of them would probably wipe the floor with me at this point, so who is to say? My point is that playing 400/800, even the slightest edge becomes HUGE. For instance, Ivey is super aggressive and fearless, so he might have thought that these other pros weren't quite as good short handed. There's probably the ego thing too, nobody wants to be the guy who gets up because he's outclassed. | ||
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| Re: Why play with the best?, Mark Barnett II, 17. Oct 2003 12:38 | ||
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| also for the fish who sit down they can say i played poker with so and so! | ||
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| Re: Why play with the best?, Blue Sky, 17. Oct 2003 14:29 | ||
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| Johnny, I can't say for sure but it sounds to me like a comination of all of the above posts. The pros are all praying for the one big fish to sit down with them. The big fish wants to sit with Ivey and Sklansky to say that he played with them....besides there are a ton of people in this world who have more money then brains... | ||
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| Re: Why play with the best?, LuckyCat, 17. Oct 2003 14:45 | ||
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| There's a chance that Phil Ivey might have been the fish in that game. My friend (a ring game pro who makes roughly 200k a year) says there are games built around some well known tournament pros. Not everyone can be like Doyle Brunson or Johnny Chan and excel at both tournament play and cash games. | ||
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| Re: Why play with the best?, 4 POKER, 17. Oct 2003 23:45 | ||
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| on 17. Oct 2003 14:45 LuckyCat wrote: > There's a chance that Phil Ivey might have been the fish in that game. My friend (a ring > game pro who makes roughly 200k a year) says there are games built around some well known > tournament pros. Not everyone can be like Doyle Brunson or Johnny Chan and excel at both > tournament play and cash games. Hey Lucky Cat, Actuallly, Phil Ivey is a ring game pro and excels in both areas. Many people aren't aware of that because they only see him on T.V. in the top tournaments, and his name also appears in Cardplayer mag., so he's then catagorized as a tournament player. Although Phil has done very well in tournaments, and much of his success is due to that form of poker.....he is an excellent ring game player as well, and if the game was shorthanded, then he was really in his element being there. I'm sure if the other players were sitting in that game, it wasn't because Phil Ivey was in seat 7! (or whatever seat he was sitting in). 4P- | ||
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| Re: Why play with the best?, LuckyCat, 18. Oct 2003 00:03 | ||
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| Well, I'd definitely take your word for it, Mr 4 Poker. Everything else you've posted has been dead on (at least in my opinion). | ||
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| Re: Why play with the best?, mkpoker, 17. Oct 2003 15:44 | ||
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| Why play with the best? My reasons: 1) for the experience; and 2) for the bragging rights. I realize this wasn't your main point, but if I had the opportunity to play a *low limit* game with Phil Ivey and David Sklansky, I'd jump at the chance (same for Roy, Grant, Barry, etc.). I'd be a huge underdog in such a game, but I'd do it just for the experience. And if I made a small profit (which is possible!) it would be worth it for the hours of fun I'd have telling my poker buddies about beating these great pros. | ||
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| Re: Why play with the best?, Boftx, 17. Oct 2003 18:47 | ||
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| Phil H plays LL (2/4, etc) all the time at UB. You would be surprised at how little of a "dog" you might be against him on those tables. OTH, he is absolute murder on the small buy-in NL games. | ||
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| Re: Why play with the best?, Barry T, 18. Oct 2003 02:57 | ||
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| Hi. First, not everyone is "the best" ust because they are playing for big bucks. There are players, even famous ones, whom the top pros still build games around. Second, Sklansky, to my knowledge, is NEVER in a bad game. His game selection qualities are top notch. (In fact, after I played with him a few times I mentioned to him that I was getting paranoind about seeing him in MY games so often :-) ). He can frequently be seen around cardrooms not playing, or playing in a lower limit game when higher ones are available. He did not write "Getting the Best of It" by accident. There are times, though, when top pros do play with each other while waiting for a propducer to appear. One of the Bellagio pros, when aked why he was playing with a coulpe of other excellent players, said "You can't get customers unless you open the store." BarryT | ||
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| Re: Why play with the best?, 4 POKER, 18. Oct 2003 15:44 | ||
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| on 18. Oct 2003 02:57 Barry T wrote: > Hi. First, not everyone is "the best" ust because they are playing for big bucks. > There are players, even famous ones, whom the top pros still build games around. > > Second, Sklansky, to my knowledge, is NEVER in a bad game. His game selection > qualities are top notch. (In fact, after I played with him a few times I mentioned to > him that I was getting paranoind about seeing him in MY games so often :-) ). He can > frequently be seen around cardrooms not playing, or playing in a lower limit game > when higher ones are available. He did not write "Getting the Best of It" by > accident. > > There are times, though, when top pros do play with each other while waiting for a > propducer to appear. One of the Bellagio pros, when aked why he was playing with a > coulpe of other excellent players, said "You can't get customers unless you open the > store." > > BarryT > > > "You can't get customers unless you open up the store". I love it! 4P- | ||
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