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Server Time: 12/2/2008 12:23:51 AM PACIFIC |
 Comment on This Kill Hand, pls., mkpoker, 16. Oct 2003 20:19 | ||
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| Should I have laid this hand down on the turn or stayed in? A close call I think. What would you have done? I post the kill blind from the button on this 3/6 hand (now doubled to 6/12). I'm dealt J7h. All fold to me. I raise my own kill blind on a a semi-steal. The SB, who's a good player and a bit tricky, calls. BB folds. Flop comes 53J rainbow (no hearts), giving me top pair, lousy kicker. SB bets out. I raise, thinking I'm probably ahead here, and he calls. To be honest, I have trouble putting SB on a hand. He could have suspected I was stealing pre-flop and played back with A-high or something similar. Still, I doubt he'd call my raise on the flop with nothing, but it's possible--he was a tricky player. Turn comes 2h. Hard to believe it could help anyone. It's possible SB was playing a hand like A4s and now made the str8, but that's a real longshot. He bets out. Now it's decision time. If I call here, I'm obviously going to call on the river if he bets, so this is a 4BB decision. Think, think, think....I call. River is Qs. He bets out. I think about a bluff-raise, but just call. He turns over KJ. I'm not sure what the best play was here. If I read the SB as a rock, I would have folded, but that wasn't the case. What do you think? | ||
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| Re: Comment on This Kill Hand, pls., shorn, 17. Oct 2003 05:34 | ||
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| I actually think that you need to raise or fold the turn here. That is a pretty ragged board, so he could be on something like AK or AQ and is betting on the fact that you have nothing. Based on the fact that you didn't know him very well, I think I would have raised the turn and if he came over me, then fold. It costs you the same amount as calling both the turn and river, but gives you the added benefit of maybe making him lay down a hand that could outdraw you on the river. Conversely, if you had known him to be a relatively tight player, then i think you would need to fold the turn since you have shown aggression twice which he has called and he is still lead betting at the turn card. | ||
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| Re: Comment on This Kill Hand, pls., Boftx, 17. Oct 2003 10:00 | ||
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| I agree with shorn, and want to add that by raising the turn you now place the burden back on the SB to decide if you were trying a steal or really have something. Your call pretty much says you were on a simi-steal. | ||
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| Re: Comment on This Kill Hand, pls., mkpoker, 17. Oct 2003 10:32 | ||
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| I think you both raise valid points. In addition to forcing out overcards, a turn raise might have prompted SB to lay down a marginal, but better, better hand like JT or J9, or even TT. At the time, I thought about raising, but decided against it because I figured it was most likely that SB would call my raise, and then bet out again on the river. Then, it would cost me 3BB instead of 2BB to reach a showdown. At that point in the hand, I thought my hand MIGHT be the best, but I really couldn't say. What you would have done if you had raised in my situation and been called? Would you muck to a bet on the river or pay off? | ||
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| Re: Comment on This Kill Hand, pls., shorn, 17. Oct 2003 10:51 | ||
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| This is one of those times that I think you have to muck. Even the fishiest of maniacs isn't going to call a raise on 3 streets and lead the river again with nothing. I would fold with that 1 unimproved pair. Basically, you are spending both BB's that you will commit to this pot on one street to hopefully force off another hand that you can't beat or that could outdraw you. | ||
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| Re: Comment on This Kill Hand, pls., Schuster, 17. Oct 2003 11:23 | ||
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| As usual, I think shorn is spot on. Anytime you are confronted with two options, both costing you the same amount by the showdown, but one gives your opponent a chance to fold, it's usually better to give him that chance. What do you have to lose? If he makes it 3 bets, you can fold with a clear conscience, likewise if he comes out at you on the river. Lee | ||
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