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Server Time: 12/2/2008 12:24:55 AM PACIFIC |
 KJo from UTG, iceman5, 16. Oct 2003 12:50 | ||
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| I was playing on a very passive table today. There was very little preflop raising. I felt like I was in control of the table. I had taken the blind 3 times in about 30 minutes with a raise from MP and was having a good session. I got KJo UTG. I decided to be aggressive and raise. One caller from MP but the the SB 3 bet. Now Im worried but I called. Flop came K84 rainbow. The SB bet and I raised to see where I was. I figured he may have AK but he could just as easily have QQ or maybe JJ (or the dreaded AA). Both players folded. For a minute I thought "wow that was close", but then I was proud of my raise. Was my initial raise or calling the 3rd bet that bad a play? If your going to play KJ UTG you almost have to raise dont you? | ||
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| Re: KJo from UTG, shorn, 16. Oct 2003 12:59 | ||
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| I think you played the hand well. If I am to play KJo UTG at all (and that isn't very often mind you), I generally will raise with it. It just doesn't do well in multi-way pots. When the SB 3-bet I think you have the odds to call (9-1 assuming the MP calls), so that is fine. And, the raise on the flop is essential as it may get someone holding a naked Ace and second or third pair to fold and even if you are behind the SB, your chances of winning the pot heads up if a J falls go up a lot against only 1 opponent. Well played (although I wouldn't get into the habit of playing this hand in any game UTG). Steve | ||
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| Re: KJo from UTG, Blue Sky, 16. Oct 2003 13:09 | ||
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| I agree with Steve, you played this hand excellently post flop, but I don't know about playing this hand from up front. Make it suited and it looks better but probably still a questionalbe call. If the raise was for deception and based on the blinds laying down to your raises earlier it was probably worth a shot, based on your read of the table's style. Your thought process on the flop was great. The SB bet and you had to find out where he was (AK vs. underpair,) finding out when the betting is cheaper is the best way to play this hand post flop. | ||
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| Re: KJo from UTG, iceman5, 16. Oct 2003 13:18 | ||
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| Cool, it appears that Im learning. | ||
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| Re: KJo from UTG, noiseboy, 16. Oct 2003 15:08 | ||
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| If the game is really passive, then KJ can be OK. Especially if you understand the pitfalls of that type of hand and are on the lookout for signs that you are trapped. However, for KJ UTG as well as AT, I like the game to be both passive and perhaps a bit tight as well since those hands like few players. If the game is passive and loose, I like those hands to be suited to add some drawing potential. I think you played the hand well. Playing aggressive, you can find out whether you have the best hand, if someone comes over you, you can always drop that hand like a stone, or call it down if the action comes from a tricky player (who of course isn't sitting at this passive table). The key is just to make sure that the table you thought was passive hasn't become aggro, one player going on tilt can change the character of the game in an instant. | ||
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| Re: KJo from UTG, The Fish, 17. Oct 2003 00:43 | ||
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| I will have to agree, generally, with the other players. Good work. KJo under the gun is ballsy. I wouldn't do it under most circumstances, but hey, you made it work. I think your raise on the flop was good for a different reason than mentioned (or I missed something). I think it was the right move for protection and protection alone. If the table is tight, as you said it was, you have to figure the blind who came out betting has probably got you beat (he clearly didn't, but when you make your raise, not knowing he is gonig to fold, you should probably figure he has you beat I will explain why in a sec). The raise was correct though, because as second best you would like to be in a heads up situation or better (the blind folding his hand). Now here is why I say you should have figured the blind had you beat. First, the table is tight. You raise under the gun. There is one caller and the SB 3 bets. Now the flop comes. SB comes out betting. Because you raised preflop UTG and you are at a tight table, you should probably figure SB has AT LEAST the over card paired (or is bluffing). So if the SB has the overcard paired what is his kicker? Thats easy enough, what hands would he (a tight player, assuming he is tight) 3 bet with? K T or lower? .....no.......KJ ? .....possibly ...but not likely......KQ ....more likely......but ....still.......iffy ........KK .....yes......KA .....possible .......so at this point.........if this player is tight.....I would put him on trip Ks or Ks with an ace kicker. Trip 8s or trip 4s is unlikey. Trip 4s being the least likey; would he pound you back with pocket 4s after u raise UTG?......not likely .........pokcet 8s? ......maybe ......i doubt it.......this is why I personally would have thought, if I were in your shoes, he has me beat when he comes out betting on the flop....... But as we know I am dead wrong.....lol...........you knew better...and you raised him ....and he along with other guy.....mucked it .......I have a feeling you know something I do not ......I believe SB got tired of you stealing blinds .....and figured he would try to teach you a lesson .....or he had a pocket pair somewhere between 9s and Qs and decided to come out betting to see where you were at.....once you re-raised he realized you had him beat for sure....... I think you did a good job.....I am a bit tighter normally .....so I probably would have just called and would have been very wrong to do so ..........good work! Good luck, Ben | ||
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