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Server Time: 2/13/2012 1:47:59 AM PACIFIC |
 Tournament Survival Theory Question, Andrew W, 15. Oct 2003 13:19 | ||
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| I've read Sklansky's Tournament book. I haven't played long, but I have placed everywhere from first out, to top 30%, to final table, and 2 heads up finals. Other than the early outs, I don't know that I played that differently from one to another. The question then is this: when should I worry about stack size? Example: Im in a multi table NL hold em at Party. 1000 start chips. At first break, we're down from 513 players to under 250. The spread between chip leaders and average is pretty big. Top 50 are in the money. I have 1100 chips. Well below average, but not in a blind-out situation yet. Is it time to play more aggressively to keep in the thing? Or sit tight and wait still? I guess what I am noticing is that at this point in a tourney, any stack size can change dramtically in NL. I tripled with 2 hands in this situation, catching the right cards and callers. Do any of you tourney people pay attention to average stack size, and number left, and consider those things in your play? I know this is a real luxury of online play with exact, immediate stats like that. Is it a luxury worth using? | ||
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| Re: Tournament Survival Theory Question, Eman, 15. Oct 2003 13:29 | ||
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| Ive done fairly well in online tourneys of 400 -800 player entries. Ive been playing online for about 4-5 months. Ive placed 1st once, 4th twice, made to the final table 9 times, finished 10th-20th twice, and bunch of times placing in the money. I think making it to the money is SIMPLE as long as you dont get a bad beat. To answer your question, no dont loosen up yet. Wait for your hands, Theres still 250 players left and if your not in blindout trouble dont loosen up. I play extremely tight for the first two hours, and hammer the pot when I have a hand. To make it to the money you only need to play a couple hands. Once the field is down to 50 and your in blind out trouble, you have to make a move. If you find yourself with a decent stack (average or a little above average), I believe you still need to be ready make a move if you want to make it to the final table. The difference between finishing 50th and 20th is not much. But there is a big difference finishing 20th and 3rd or 4th or even 1st. | ||
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| Re: Tournament Survival Theory Question, noiseboy, 15. Oct 2003 16:21 | ||
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| Great post eman, I agree that in the early rounds, it's all about playing tight until you get something big and then pounding on the competition. The key to making it to the money in a tournament, is that you win the first one or two big pots you play (which usually happen at round 5 or later). If you haven't lost much in the early rounds this will vault you to big stack status and increases your options tenfold as to how you go from there. By then stack sizes have differentiated and you can avoid other bigguns and pound on the little guy a bit more. Basically, the first keypot you play determines strategy from there on because if you lose, you'll often be waiting for something fairly big if you are shortstacked, and can't steal as easily, when you don't have the big pile o chips to intimidate your opponents. | ||
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| follow up question, Andrew W, 15. Oct 2003 18:59 | ||
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| Thanks guys - that all makes sense. Now, a follow up.... Top 50 are in the money. 41-50 pay the same, $51 - places 31-40 pay $61. (buy in was $22) There are 41 of us left. I have 3.5k in chips - less than 1/3 the average stack, but there a couple shoestringers out there with 150 or 200 chips, and will be gone soon. At least one will anyway, and if I sit still, I make another $10. But I also figure, if an opportunity arises, take the risk, since the $10 difference is not as big a deal as a possibility of getting back in the game with a real stack might afford me later. So, here I am in the SB, with AK....... There is an early position raiser - and a mid position re-raiser..... To call is to go all in. If I fold, I'll likely move to the next payoff level, but not have much chance of getting further. If I call and lose, I'm out. If I call and win, I may have a real shot. So, with two big raisers, how does AK look here? (off suit) What do you do? I think I know the answer now........ And I think it's the same regardless of the tournament stuff, two big raisers, I guess the answer is fold. My decision: I called. I'm up against JJ and A5suited. Flop comes with a J and one club. A5 clubs goes all in, JJ calls, backdoor flush and A5 (original raiser) wins. JJJ was most crushed. | ||
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| Re: follow up question, Cpt Kernow, 16. Oct 2003 03:10 | ||
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| I dont think you can should consider Ako a reraise hand. It is an underdog/only slight favourite to many many hands. You want to be the raiser with this hand to force out other strong hands (the gap concept) but to call or reraise with it is another matter which will depend mostly on stack size. In short AK gives such a little edge (if any) over other playable hands that it is not worth taking the risk with your stack in the position you have described. Fold. | ||
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| Re: follow up question, shorn, 16. Oct 2003 05:13 | ||
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| No brainer fold. If it were just the one raiser, it is more debatable, but with two people showing strength there is no doubt you are behind and maybe by a lot. At this point in the tournament, you need to survive and since you are in the small blind, you will have 8 more hands before the blinds come again to be the aggressor which is what you want to be in NL. | ||
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| Re: follow up question, spawn of satan, 16. Oct 2003 22:52 | ||
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| Andrew, A call here is negative EV- you want to be the bettor, not the caller, most times and this is no exception. Even with enough money to lay down some heat, you should give this one up. Look for a better situation. Alan | ||
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| Re: follow up question, Schuster, 17. Oct 2003 09:05 | ||
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| I agree with the others. With a raise and reraise ahead of you, you're probably tied at best, if not far buried. Calling all your chips off is never good unless you have a real powerhouse, and AK just isn't good enough. Lee | ||
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