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Server Time: 12/2/2008 12:21:31 AM PACIFIC |
 How to play Middle Pckt Pairs in LL games online., Eman, 15. Oct 2003 13:14 | ||
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| One major leak I have in my game is playing middle pckt pairs in LL games online (1/2, 2/4, 3/6) and $10-$50 SnG's. If the flop is seen multiway and high cards hit on the flop, I almost always toss my pckts away. Im more concerned in situations where your pckt pairs are higher than the rags on the flop. For example: If I hold 88 in late position and 4 or more see the flop of low cards such as 2 7 4 rainbow. Most players at the Low Limits will call and bet with overcards. My hand is pretty much garbage if higher cards hit. How would most of you play this. I feel more content in tossing my 88 away. Even if I reraise, overcard players will still call. What about in NL tourneys? Even if I make a significant bet to drive out the overcards, players still call. Im realizing more and more that Middle Pckt Pairs are worthless in Low Limit. | ||
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| Re: How to play Middle Pckt Pairs in LL games online., Blue Sky, 15. Oct 2003 13:36 | ||
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| Eman, I only play live poker so maybe someone can make any corrections necessary to my post but I wanted to put my thoughts on playing middle to small pocket pairs in LL games. (I won't attempt to answer tournament questions b/c I don't play in them.) I love to play any pocket pair dealt to me with one caveat. You must LIMP in with middle and low pocket pairs. This gets tougher from up front but you must be able to read the table to some degree and recognize when your going to get raised from a maniac and the like. If you feel your going to be raised then muck from up front. If you feel you can limp in then take a flop. Middle pocket pairs are very easy to play post flop. - you have hit your set, then bet the hell out of it....the flop is bigger then your pair and there is action, fold and forget about it...the flop is under your pair, then bet and continue on like you have the nuts until it is obvious that you don't have the nuts. The benefit of pocket pairs is that your hand is hidden when you do hit your set and you can usually trap many others that have hit top pair or even two pair for many bets. Follow this simple rule it works for me with the exception of an undercard flop - Flop a set or get out. | ||
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| Re: How to play Middle Pckt Pairs in LL games online., Eman, 15. Oct 2003 13:45 | ||
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| thanks for the reply. My question is specifically when you have over pckt pairs on a rag board when the pot is multiway. | ||
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| Re: How to play Middle Pckt Pairs in LL games online., Blue Sky, 15. Oct 2003 13:59 | ||
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| Sorry about that I must of mis-read the original post. This question, like many other poker strategy questions, comes down to one simple answer - it depends. What is your read on the table? Are over cards calling down to the river? Is my bet going to eliminate the over card callers? Is my raise going to make a difference? IIn general if I have an over pair to the board I'm probably betting (of course with the exception of the straight or flush boards.) | ||
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| Re: How to play Middle Pckt Pairs in LL games online., iceman5, 15. Oct 2003 14:07 | ||
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| If you have 88 with a flop of 2 7 4 with multiple players I would still fold to a bet. If there are multiple players, any over card will beat you. If you dont get any over cards there are now 5 cards under 8 and surely someone is going to have a straight. | ||
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| Re: How to play Middle Pckt Pairs in LL games online., shorn, 16. Oct 2003 05:02 | ||
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| Iceman- I think you are costing yourself bets and pots by folding automatically when you flop a middle overpair. This is a situation that is good for you, albeit one that is subject to being outdrawn. Ideally, what you want is for the player to your immediate right to bet out so that you can raise to eliminate players behind you OR cause them to make a mathematical error in calling your bet. You have to remember that after the flop has come with no overcards, your 88 to a 274 flop is now a big favorite against someone holding AK (on the order of 65-70%). I understand your reluctance with these hands, but over the long term you are lowering your hourly win rate by playing these +EV situations so meekly. Steve | ||
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| Re: How to play Middle Pckt Pairs in LL games online., noiseboy, 15. Oct 2003 19:36 | ||
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| One thing I like to do is raise with them when there are a lot of players and I'm in late position. The cool thing is that there is usually a lot of "check to the raiser" going on at loose low limit games so you often get a look at a fourth card to get your 8 when the flop is scary. Sometimes when they all check to you will get the feeling that a bet will drive some players out, so you go ahead and bet your overpair even if there are a bunch of players in. If it's a loose crazy game you might not want to play 77s and 88s from upfront, it all depends on how many people you think will come in and for how many bets. | ||
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| Re: How to play Middle Pckt Pairs in LL games online., Flatout_Mainiac, 16. Oct 2003 09:05 | ||
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| I generally would play this hand fast as would want to try to fold overcards, charge draws, fold middle pairs and so on. Since there is a slim chance that someone will slowplay that flop you will find out quick how good your overpair is. I'll even 3 bet this once also if the prelop was unraised (raised preflop, i'm probably just watching this hand anyway). | ||
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| Re: How to play Middle Pckt Pairs in LL games online., Schuster, 17. Oct 2003 11:36 | ||
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| Well, for speculation purposes, let's propose a hypothetical. You hold that 88 and the flop is the 2-4-7 rainbow. You're in middle position, 3 players have checked to you, and one player is left to act. You bet, the player after you calls, and one of the early players calls. Now a jack falls on the turn, the early player checks to you. What do you do? If you aren't betting in this spot, that might be why you feel like the middle pairs aren't worth it. Sure, that jack might have hit one of your opponents, but it might not have. You need to fire again and then make your decision based on their actions. It's unlikely that they'll see the river with just overcards for a bet, why give them a chance to see it for free? I think your best bet is to post hands where you had a middle pair in a situation like this, and let everyone comment on your play. The leak might be easily fixed if we had more information. Lee | ||
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