|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 2/13/2012 12:06:16 PM PACIFIC |
 VERY INTERESTING HOME GAME SITUATION., Jordan, 15. Oct 2003 00:25 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| So I was playing a pot limit HE game last night with 3 friends of mine and this hand came up. I'm holding the 10 7 of Diamonds while my opponent is holding the 2 3 of Diamonds. The flop comes 8 and 4 of diamonds and a blank. The turn brings the 5 of diamonds making us both a flush. I bet out with my flush knowing my opponent will likely call and is strong (but I don't think he can beat my flush) as well. He calls the turn. The river comes the 6 of Diamonds. I bet out 8 dollars into the pot thinking my 10 high flush is good based on his talking (he was acting as though he had the flush on the turn and I was lucky to draw to a higher flush on the river.) He disgustedly throws down his hand face up towards the muck. He has yet to verbally say 'fold' or 'call' and another guy (who isn't in the hand) points out he has a straight flush. My stomach sinks. I wish I could take back my 8 dollars. He now decides he wants to call. The two other guys tell him it isn't fair for him to throw down his hand toward the muck and then decided to call after they've called out his hand for him. I feel shafted as he had his hand called out since I think his hand should be dead since he threw his cards face up (even though we haven't made a rule for this type of situation.) I turn my cards over pissed off thinking I'm beat and thinking about what we should do when they point out I HAVE A STRAIGHT FLUSH. Then.........my opponent decides he doesn't want to call hthe 8 dollars and wants to pull back out. I'm in shock as I've mistread my own hand and accidentally turned over the winning straight flush. What do you guys feel should happen in this situation. After I turned over my higher straight flush he was fine about giving me the pot but didn't want to give the 8 dollars on the end. It seems obvious I win the pot but what should be done about the 8 dollar bet on the end? What's the rule for others calling out a winning hand and what's the rule on throwing your cards face up in the muck and then 'deciding if you want to call or not'? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: VERY INTERESTING HOME GAME SITUATION., modestmice, 15. Oct 2003 00:34 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| on 15. Oct 2003 00:25 Jordan wrote: > So I was playing a pot limit HE game last night with 3 friends of mine and this > hand came up. I'm holding the 10 7 of Diamonds while my opponent is holding the > 2 3 of Diamonds. The flop comes 8 and 4 of diamonds and a blank. The turn > brings the 5 of diamonds making us both a flush. I bet out with my flush > knowing my opponent will likely call and is strong (but I don't think he can > beat my flush) as well. He calls the turn. The river comes the 6 of Diamonds. > I bet out 8 dollars into the pot thinking my 10 high flush is good based on his > talking (he was acting as though he had the flush on the turn and I was lucky to > draw to a higher flush on the river.) He disgustedly throws down his hand face > up towards the muck. He has yet to verbally say 'fold' or 'call' and another > guy (who isn't in the hand) points out he has a straight flush. My stomach > sinks. I wish I could take back my 8 dollars. He now decides he wants to call. > The two other guys tell him it isn't fair for him to throw down his hand toward > the muck and then decided to call after they've called out his hand for him. I > feel shafted as he had his hand called out since I think his hand should be dead > since he threw his cards face up (even though we haven't made a rule for this > type of situation.) I turn my cards over pissed off thinking I'm beat and > thinking about what we should do when they point out I HAVE A STRAIGHT FLUSH. > Then.........my opponent decides he doesn't want to call hthe 8 dollars and > wants to pull back out. I'm in shock as I've mistread my own hand and > accidentally turned over the winning straight flush. What do you guys feel > should happen in this situation. After I turned over my higher straight flush > he was fine about giving me the pot but didn't want to give the 8 dollars on the > end. It seems obvious I win the pot but what should be done about the 8 dollar > bet on the end? What's the rule for others calling out a winning hand and > what's the rule on throwing your cards face up in the muck and then 'deciding if > you want to call or not'? dude, what are u talking about. explain how u both have a str flush. where is the 9 dia that would give u a str flush?! either way you guys are both confused, the dealer is confused, im confused. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: VERY INTERESTING HOME GAME SITUATION., 4 POKER, 15. Oct 2003 00:41 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hey modestmice, The board contains the 8-4-5-6 of diamonds. He holds the 7 of diamonds. Therefore he has an eight high straight flush. 4P- | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: VERY INTERESTING HOME GAME SITUATION., Jordan, 15. Oct 2003 00:42 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| 4 POKER, what's ur take on this pot? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: VERY INTERESTING HOME GAME SITUATION., 4 POKER, 15. Oct 2003 03:57 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hi, Your friend owes you 8 bucks! Seriously, when he decided that he was going to call you, after his hand was pointed out, (and he thought he won the pot)...he must then be committed to that verbal statement after he knew that 'you' were indeed holding the better hand. (in my honest opinion, that was totally unfair to you.....but it's too late now). As far as his hand going towards the muck face up? Well, there are different rules in every casino (it seems), so that's a tough one. Where I play, his hand would still be live because it never actually touched the muck, and he never implied (verbally) that he was going to fold. But your other friend should never, NEVER have said anything because the bet was not called yet. I think you guys need to sit down and discuss what the rules should be for all types of situations, so you can address the problems when they occur, and make them "stick". 4P- | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: VERY INTERESTING HOME GAME SITUATION., modestmice, 15. Oct 2003 01:03 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| thank you, like i said, im confused on 15. Oct 2003 00:41 4 POKER wrote: > Hey modestmice, > > The board contains the 8-4-5-6 of diamonds. He holds the 7 of diamonds. Therefore he has > an eight high straight flush. > > > 4P- | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: VERY INTERESTING HOME GAME SITUATION., modestmice, 15. Oct 2003 00:36 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| maybe drink less in home games, lol | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: VERY INTERESTING HOME GAME SITUATION., Jordan, 15. Oct 2003 00:41 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| the end board has a 4,5,6, and 8 of diamonds. I have a 7 meaning I have a straight flush 4 to the 8 while my opponent has a 2 to the 6 straight flush. Maybe you need to stop drinking :P | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| For Jordan and 4Poker, Easy E, 15. Oct 2003 04:48 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| The smaller straight flush is committed to the call. His hand is not dead, since it was thrown face up and didn't hit the muck. He took it back and said he was going to call, he owes $8. Now, as to the table helping with the hands. I think, unlike 4P, that the table SHOULD help declare hands when they are shown, especially in a home game that is (hopefully) friendly. Better to prevent hard feelings for "angle shooting" (not that this is) than to worry about one pot- there will be plenty more pots IF the game continues. There is no professional dealer here to assume responsibility for the hand- it is a group responsibilty, since I assume it is "cards speak" 4Poker- are you seriously saying that, if someone shows their hand face up, you wouldn't have a responsibility to make sure the best hand won, EVEN in a casino? Telling a person to call or show their cards is verboten, but once a hand is displayed, don't you think that the table is partially responsible to help? If, by some miracle, YOU missed such a hand (you'd been in a car accident coming to the game and you were still seeing 3 sets of cards), would you feel that assistance from others in this case was expected? Or, should it be that NO one helps correct situations which are shown? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: For Jordan and 4Poker, Angel, 15. Oct 2003 06:49 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| on 15. Oct 2003 04:48 Easy E wrote: > Now, as to the table helping with the hands. I think, unlike 4P, that the table > SHOULD help declare hands when they are shown, especially in a home game that is > (hopefully) friendly. > 4Poker- are you seriously saying that, if someone shows their hand face up, you > wouldn't have a responsibility to make sure the best hand won, EVEN in a casino? If I understand the situation correctly, until the player with a face up hand calls - it cannot possibly be the best hand. The governing rule here would be: One player to a hand. No one can help in any way while action is pending. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: For Jordan and 4Poker, Easy E, 16. Oct 2003 06:35 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| agreed- I wondered if it should be different for a home game, but I agree now that it shouldn't | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| For Easy E, 4 POKER, 15. Oct 2003 12:57 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hi Easy E, You misread what I was saying. I had stated that his friend should not have called ATTENTION to the player who threw his hand face up towards the muck because he had NOT yet called the bet. (the one player to a hand rule is in affect at that moment because there was not equal action yet). That's what I was saying, Easy E. (perhaps you should re-read my response)? Of course, IF all the bets were called, and THEN he turned his cards face up, it would be fair for ANYONE at the table to call out his hand. (but that wasn't the case here). And I also said that yes, his friend should be committed to putting in that 8 bucks because he verbally committed to the call. And yes, there should be rules, whether it's a home game or not. Otherwise, you'll be running into sticky situations like this all the time; and if it doesn't bother them to play with no rules, then so be it. But obviously it did, or he wouldn't have posted this dilemma. Keep in mind, Easy E, things don't have to be cut-throat, and the game can still remain friendly, but imho, rules in ALL games are there for a purpose. (and by the way, *without* rules is when you'll be more likely to run into "angle shooting"). 4P- | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: For Easy E, Jordan, 15. Oct 2003 15:35 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| That's a good point. While I do play for fun and the extra 8 dollars wasn't a life or death thing I don't want to just throw it away just because we were playing for 'fun'. I do take poker very competitvely and strive to win and make correct decisions at all points. Having rules established beforehand would have prevented this situation from happening. Thanks for all the responses. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: For Easy E, Easy E, 16. Oct 2003 06:35 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Okay, we are on the same page then. I forgot that he hadn't called the bet when he threw his hands face up towards the muck. I agree that in most cases no one should have said anything. I was a little unsure as to whether, in a home game, more help should be offered or not, since presumably you are playing with people that you know and hard feelings over a pot might not be worth it.... but i acquiesce to your ruling. whew, what a relief! i thought the magic was gone between us (don't worry, Moz, you're still my one and only....) | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: VERY INTERESTING HOME GAME SITUATION., Snorbolus, 15. Oct 2003 06:14 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Jordan, I think that you should laugh it off and let the $8 go. Yes your friend did make the call and strictly speaking his money should have gone into the pot. But, in a homegame, I believe that there is a lot to be said for keeping the atmosphere fun and carefree. Of course you need to have clear rules that everybody keeps to. However, the first time that a new situation arises and a hand descends into chaos, as it did here, I think that it is good for the game if it can be resolved in a way that leaves everybody feeling good about it. In this case you got the pot, your friend got to keep that last $8. Perehaps he will feel more inclined to make more calls in the future, if it seems that you are more interested in playing the game and having fun than you are in taking his money. Indeed, I am sure that you are more interested in playing the game and having fun than in winning an extra $8 from your friend. Snorbolus on 15. Oct 2003 00:25 Jordan wrote: > So I was playing a pot limit HE game last night with 3 friends of mine and this > hand came up. I'm holding the 10 7 of Diamonds while my opponent is holding the > 2 3 of Diamonds. The flop comes 8 and 4 of diamonds and a blank. The turn > brings the 5 of diamonds making us both a flush. I bet out with my flush > knowing my opponent will likely call and is strong (but I don't think he can > beat my flush) as well. He calls the turn. The river comes the 6 of Diamonds. > I bet out 8 dollars into the pot thinking my 10 high flush is good based on his > talking (he was acting as though he had the flush on the turn and I was lucky to > draw to a higher flush on the river.) He disgustedly throws down his hand face > up towards the muck. He has yet to verbally say 'fold' or 'call' and another > guy (who isn't in the hand) points out he has a straight flush. My stomach > sinks. I wish I could take back my 8 dollars. He now decides he wants to call. > The two other guys tell him it isn't fair for him to throw down his hand toward > the muck and then decided to call after they've called out his hand for him. I > feel shafted as he had his hand called out since I think his hand should be dead > since he threw his cards face up (even though we haven't made a rule for this > type of situation.) I turn my cards over pissed off thinking I'm beat and > thinking about what we should do when they point out I HAVE A STRAIGHT FLUSH. > Then.........my opponent decides he doesn't want to call hthe 8 dollars and > wants to pull back out. I'm in shock as I've mistread my own hand and > accidentally turned over the winning straight flush. What do you guys feel > should happen in this situation. After I turned over my higher straight flush > he was fine about giving me the pot but didn't want to give the 8 dollars on the > end. It seems obvious I win the pot but what should be done about the 8 dollar > bet on the end? What's the rule for others calling out a winning hand and > what's the rule on throwing your cards face up in the muck and then 'deciding if > you want to call or not'? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: VERY INTERESTING HOME GAME SITUATION., Risky Business, 15. Oct 2003 07:42 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Taking only what you posted, and not reading the comments of the others yet...... 1. Intent to fold should count for something. You can't expect to sling your cards from one end of the table to the other, then get them back. 2. The dealer is the only one that should be ranking the hands, but I understand it's a home game, so this stuff happens. 3. It's your $8. If you're allowing him back in the pot, which you had already done (resulting in that empty stomach feeling), he can't pull money off the table, that's bull*#@%. Again, it's a home game, so take $4 on the premise that he would have bet AT LEAST $8 had both of you known your hands. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: VERY INTERESTING HOME GAME SITUATION., Jordan, 15. Oct 2003 08:36 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| His friends who know him better (I've only known these guys a few weeks) forced him to pay me off the $8 at the end. I didn't really care at that point. He was so pissed off at the hand that I just wished the game would go on smoothly from there. I did feel it was unfair though that his clear intent to fold changed to calling when he saw his straight flush and then then changed back to folding after we all realized I had a higher straight flush. The funny thing is this is the same guy a week ago called out his 'nut flush' on the river to which his opponent declares 'full house'. He throws down his QJ of hearts down face up pissed off thinking he's lost the hand to a suckout (the river made his opponent's pocket 5's turn into 5's full) and begins to storm off . We had already been commenting on the flop that there's a royal flush potential with the K and 10 of hearts on the board. The turn had come the A of hearts. We then tell him he has a royal flush to which he gladly comes back to the table to collect his money ( I promise we aren't all retarded newbie poker players) but it was pretty funny. We gave him crap for a week. Now he's getting it even more after missing another monster. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: VERY INTERESTING HOME GAME SITUATION., ponjac, 15. Oct 2003 19:54 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| we call that a muck. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: VERY INTERESTING HOME GAME SITUATION., Brent, 16. Oct 2003 13:17 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| 1st, your buddy should never have said anything about the hand till it was called. 2nd, he was verbally committed to calling and owes you $8. Your just lucky you didn't muck your cards. Brent | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network | Find Vancouver Businesses |
|