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Would you pay this off?, Blue Sky, 14. Oct 2003 14:44
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Private club $10 $20 game. Very loose passive with myself, my buddy and one other unkown fellow as the only aggressive players at the 9 person table. 3 players are medicore, 2 are total fish and the last player is the worst player I have ever saw but seems to have the knack of getting lucky more then any one I have ever played with.

I'm the button and pick up red A's. UTG (the other unknown aggressive player) raises. one caller to me and I re-raise. The SB (the idiot - more on him in a minute,) calls, UTG caps, MP fish calls as do myself and the SB.

The Idiot - stuck around $600 because he plays every hand to the river to show nothing..IE 72o, K3o, and the like...Has not raised any hand all night except made straights or flushes, (gutshot or runner runner he'll usually have it,) He has even twice checked the flop, turn and river on a ragged board and showed pocket A's each time. I think the guy is about 6 or 7 beers in and is more worried about the $500 he put on Atl to cover vs. St. Louis b/c he doesn't have the cash to pay off the debt.

Flop comes A 9 7 rainbow.
SB checks, UTG bets, MP calls, I raise, SB calls, UTG re-raises, MP folds, I cap and both call.

Turn is a 5.
SB checks, UTG bets, I raise, SB calls, UTG re-raises I cap and both call.

RIver is a 6
SB bets out, UTG raises....I muckced....SB called and showed the 8 for the straight...UTG shows AKs and goes on a tirade about how bad the SB's play is...I never said a word...(but did quickly smoke 10 cigarettes in about 5 minutes.)

My question is ...would you pay off in this spot...My thoughts pretty much were that my read was correct and the SB caught the longshot runner runner gutshot straight and I couldn't see paying $40 now and possibly $40 beyond that if the SB raises and tilts the UTG. You have to love playing with idiots until they get there, but those are the breaks...
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Re: Would you pay this off?, KJo, 14. Oct 2003 17:56
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There's way too much money in the pot to not pay off with a set of aces. The guy was an idiot- even though it was fairly obvious he had an 8 it couldn't have been completely obvious unless he was playing his cards face up.

Eli

on 14. Oct 2003 14:44 Blue Sky wrote:
> Private club $10 $20 game. Very loose passive with myself, my buddy and one
> other unkown fellow as the only aggressive players at the 9 person table. 3
> players are medicore, 2 are total fish and the last player is the worst player I
> have ever saw but seems to have the knack of getting lucky more then any one I
> have ever played with.
>
> I'm the button and pick up red A's. UTG (the other unknown aggressive player)
> raises. one caller to me and I re-raise. The SB (the idiot - more on him in a
> minute,) calls, UTG caps, MP fish calls as do myself and the SB.
>
> The Idiot - stuck around $600 because he plays every hand to the river to show
> nothing..IE 72o, K3o, and the like...Has not raised any hand all night except
> made straights or flushes, (gutshot or runner runner he'll usually have it,) He
> has even twice checked the flop, turn and river on a ragged board and showed
> pocket A's each time. I think the guy is about 6 or 7 beers in and is more
> worried about the $500 he put on Atl to cover vs. St. Louis b/c he doesn't have
> the cash to pay off the debt.
>
> Flop comes A 9 7 rainbow.
> SB checks, UTG bets, MP calls, I raise, SB calls, UTG re-raises, MP folds, I
> cap and both call.
>
> Turn is a 5.
> SB checks, UTG bets, I raise, SB calls, UTG re-raises I cap and both call.
>
> RIver is a 6
> SB bets out, UTG raises....I muckced....SB called and showed the 8 for the
> straight...UTG shows AKs and goes on a tirade about how bad the SB's play is...I
> never said a word...(but did quickly smoke 10 cigarettes in about 5 minutes.)
>
> My question is ...would you pay off in this spot...My thoughts pretty much were
> that my read was correct and the SB caught the longshot runner runner gutshot
> straight and I couldn't see paying $40 now and possibly $40 beyond that if the
> SB raises and tilts the UTG. You have to love playing with idiots until they
> get there, but those are the breaks...
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Re: Would you pay this off?, modestmice, 14. Oct 2003 18:11
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i would pay it off too, thats a major hole, making the laydown like that. if you continue to laydown in that same spot, you will lose so may bets its insane. always always call that, if u win that pot once outta 5 u will be ahead.

on 14. Oct 2003 17:56 KJo wrote:
> There's way too much money in the pot to not pay off with a set of aces. The guy was
> an idiot- even though it was fairly obvious he had an 8 it couldn't have been
> completely obvious unless he was playing his cards face up.
>
> Eli
>
> on 14. Oct 2003 14:44 Blue Sky wrote:
> > Private club $10 $20 game. Very loose passive with myself, my buddy and one
> > other unkown fellow as the only aggressive players at the 9 person table. 3
> > players are medicore, 2 are total fish and the last player is the worst player I
>
> > have ever saw but seems to have the knack of getting lucky more then any one I
> > have ever played with.
> >
> > I'm the button and pick up red A's. UTG (the other unknown aggressive player)
> > raises. one caller to me and I re-raise. The SB (the idiot - more on him in a
> > minute,) calls, UTG caps, MP fish calls as do myself and the SB.
> >
> > The Idiot - stuck around $600 because he plays every hand to the river to show
> > nothing..IE 72o, K3o, and the like...Has not raised any hand all night except
> > made straights or flushes, (gutshot or runner runner he'll usually have it,) He
>
> > has even twice checked the flop, turn and river on a ragged board and showed
> > pocket A's each time. I think the guy is about 6 or 7 beers in and is more
> > worried about the $500 he put on Atl to cover vs. St. Louis b/c he doesn't have
> > the cash to pay off the debt.
> >
> > Flop comes A 9 7 rainbow.
> > SB checks, UTG bets, MP calls, I raise, SB calls, UTG re-raises, MP folds, I
> > cap and both call.
> >
> > Turn is a 5.
> > SB checks, UTG bets, I raise, SB calls, UTG re-raises I cap and both call.
> >
> > RIver is a 6
> > SB bets out, UTG raises....I muckced....SB called and showed the 8 for the
> > straight...UTG shows AKs and goes on a tirade about how bad the SB's play is...I
>
> > never said a word...(but did quickly smoke 10 cigarettes in about 5 minutes.)
> >
> > My question is ...would you pay off in this spot...My thoughts pretty much were
> > that my read was correct and the SB caught the longshot runner runner gutshot
> > straight and I couldn't see paying $40 now and possibly $40 beyond that if the
> > SB raises and tilts the UTG. You have to love playing with idiots until they
> > get there, but those are the breaks...
"Some of the truly weakest players are those who think they know it all. Know-it-all-ism is one of the most exploitable weaknesses a player can have."
--Steve Badger
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Re: Would you pay this off?, shorn, 15. Oct 2003 05:31
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I wouldn't. I have a rule that if it only takes one card to beat me, then I can justify folding the river even though the pot is big. Add to that the fact that the UTG raised when the SB led out and you have to give one of them credit for a 6 (most likely the SB). Finally, when a bad player passively calls all the way and then leads out when the 4th flush card or str8 card comes, 99.999 times out of 100 you are beaten. Good fold.
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Re: Would you pay this off?, shorn, 15. Oct 2003 05:32
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Sorry...I meant credit for an 8.
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Re: Would you pay this off?, noiseboy, 15. Oct 2003 10:27
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Here's a crazy play I make once in awhile. If there is a one-card str8 or flush out there that has completely ruined my hand, sometimes I will bet as if I made it. If I get raised, I'll fold and say something like "I got nuthin". Anyway, the bluff usually doesn't work, but once in a while somebody with the low end of the Str8 or a small card of the flush suit will fold the best hand, and hopefully tilt after that. Also, when it doesn't work, it's very cheap advertising, 1 bet buys you the "crazy will bet with nothing" image that gets you action on your monster hands. You only have to get caught once, then suddenly everyone is calling your value bets on the river to "keep you honest." The beauty is that you had a decent holding up until the last card killed it, so you really get a lot bang for your buck. I'm also assuming the pot is fairly big, so it only has to work once in a while to pay for itself without considering any advertising value.

Of course your opponents have to be capable of laydowns and observant enough to have a table image of you and act on it later for it to work.
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Re: Would you pay this off?, KJo, 15. Oct 2003 11:54
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I love the 4-flush bluff, I do it all the time and it has paid me far more often than it has cost me. In a weak LL game, if you bet out with 4 to a flush on the board, you will likely only get called by a medium-strong flush, it's probably the scariest looking board to an inexperienced table, and unless you KNOW someone made the flush it's a great bluff.

I saw a guy fold a ten high flush the other night in these circumstances, with a huge pot. The winner had a 4. He didn't even need to have that. Lots of LL players will make this bluff work from one end of the table or another.

Eli


on 15. Oct 2003 10:27 noiseboy wrote:
> Here's a crazy play I make once in awhile. If there is a one-card str8 or flush out there
> that has completely ruined my hand, sometimes I will bet as if I made it. If I get
> raised, I'll fold and say something like "I got nuthin". Anyway, the bluff usually
> doesn't work, but once in a while somebody with the low end of the Str8 or a small card of
> the flush suit will fold the best hand, and hopefully tilt after that. Also, when it
> doesn't work, it's very cheap advertising, 1 bet buys you the "crazy will bet with
> nothing" image that gets you action on your monster hands. You only have to get caught
> once, then suddenly everyone is calling your value bets on the river to "keep you honest."
> The beauty is that you had a decent holding up until the last card killed it, so you
> really get a lot bang for your buck. I'm also assuming the pot is fairly big, so it only
> has to work once in a while to pay for itself without considering any advertising value.
>
>
> Of course your opponents have to be capable of laydowns and observant enough to have a
> table image of you and act on it later for it to work.
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