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Server Time: 10/11/2008 11:20:28 PM PACIFIC |
 NL Hand- Would you call?, shorn, 14. Oct 2003 06:43 | ||
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| $100 NL on Party. Typical game with lots of pots where there are 4 to 5 limpers and only occassionally will someone raise the pot pre-flop to try and eliminate. Basically, a great game to play in if you play well post flop. Anyway, I am in the SB with T7h, three limpers to me, I complete and the BB checks. Flop comes down 568 rainbow. So, I have flopped the open-ender. It is checked around to the button who makes the minimum bet. This player has around $85 in front of him, and the hands that I have seen him show down have been solid. It is a little strange for him to bet this small, but with so many limpers, he may hold something like middle pair with an overcard and therefore he is putting in a "feeler" bet to see what folks got a piec of the flop. Getting 6-1 on my draw, I call as does one other limper. Turn is a 4 completing the rainbow and giving me my str8. I decide to find out if anyone has 97 and so I bet the pot ($20). Strangely enoug, I am called by BOTH players. Hmmm...that wasn't what I had hoped, so I at least have to put one of them on a 7. River is a complete blank. I check and so does the player next to me. The button goes all-in for his remaining $60. So, I am getting $140 to $60 on my call and the only hand that beats me is 97. What would you do? | ||
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| Re: NL Hand- Would you call?, Risky Business, 14. Oct 2003 06:53 | ||
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| I think he has 7-7 and you split the pot. I'd call. If he's playing 9-7, I imagine it's suited. on 14. Oct 2003 06:43 shorn wrote: > $100 NL on Party. Typical game with lots of pots where there are 4 to 5 limpers and only occassionally will someone raise the pot pre-flop to try and eliminate. Basically, a great game to play in if you play well post flop. Anyway, I am in the SB with T7h, three limpers to me, I complete and the BB checks. > > Flop comes down 568 rainbow. So, I have flopped the open-ender. It is checked around to the button who makes the minimum bet. This player has around $85 in front of him, and the hands that I have seen him show down have been solid. It is a little strange for him to bet this small, but with so many limpers, he may hold something like middle pair with an overcard and therefore he is putting in a "feeler" bet to see what folks got a piec of the flop. Getting 6-1 on my draw, I call as does one other limper. > > Turn is a 4 completing the rainbow and giving me my str8. I decide to find out if anyone has 97 and so I bet the pot ($20). Strangely enoug, I am called by BOTH players. Hmmm...that wasn't what I had hoped, so I at least have to put one of them on a 7. > > River is a complete blank. I check and so does the player next to me. The button goes all-in for his remaining $60. So, I am getting $140 to $60 on my call and the only hand that beats me is 97. > > What would you do? | ||
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| Re: NL Hand- Would you call?, Mark, 14. Oct 2003 08:25 | ||
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| shorn Without really knowing the opponent, it is very hard to say, but the longer i think about it, the more it seems likely the bettor had the nuts. His small flop bet could have meant a few things 1. he was weak and was hoping to take down a small pot 2. he wanted to see if anyone was looking to check raise 3. he was hoping to start building a bigger pot because he had the nuts or nut draw If he did have the nuts, he played it very well. The small flop bet to build a pot but still look weak ( i never make this play but many do). Flat calling 2 opponents on the turn who likely had weaker str8s. His flat call may induce a big bet on the river by you or the other opponent, which he could reraise. Then making a big bet on the river after you 2 showed weakness looks like he may be bluffing. I think you should have raised the flop with the open ended str8 draw and single overcard. That may win the small pot right there, get you heads up and give you control of the hand, or at least give you some informaiton about the hand. The way you played the hand gave you no information till the turn, and even then it was incomplete, making a river decision very diffucult. Mark | ||
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| Re: NL Hand- Would you call?, shorn, 14. Oct 2003 11:11 | ||
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| Mark- Good points. However, I don't like making raises on draws in NL because if you raise into a made hand, you commit a lot of chips potentially without getting to see any more cards. But, I agree that you could push someone off a weaker hand in this case. However, as it turned out, the bettor did have the nuts and he slow played it beautifully. I felt I had to call his bet with my str8 since he could have been bluffing. So, I took a bath on this one. Very well played by him though. Thanks, Steve | ||
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| Re: NL Hand- Would you call?, Risky Business, 14. Oct 2003 12:50 | ||
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| Do you feel your original profile of this player only playing solid hands was wrong then, or do you feel he simply entered this pot because he was on the button in a multiway pot? on 14. Oct 2003 11:11 shorn wrote: > Mark- > > Good points. However, I don't like making raises on draws in NL because if you raise > into a made hand, you commit a lot of chips potentially without getting to see any more > cards. But, I agree that you could push someone off a weaker hand in this case. > > However, as it turned out, the bettor did have the nuts and he slow played it > beautifully. I felt I had to call his bet with my str8 since he could have been bluffing. > So, I took a bath on this one. > > Very well played by him though. > > Thanks, > > Steve | ||
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| Re: NL Hand- Would you call?, shorn, 15. Oct 2003 04:58 | ||
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| Risky- That's tough to say. In a limping NL game, I would play that same hand on the button with that many folks in assuming that they were relatively deep in chips, so I don't consider it that loose a play. I find that often the best strategy in the online NL games is to limp a lot with hands that can turn into monsters and then fold if someone behind you shows a lot of strength. The reason for this is that all you need to do is hit 1 or 2 hands a session to be ahead a ton of $$ because online most players will call you down for all of their chips with second best hands. So, I think that the button is a solid player who hit his perfect flop against others who had the lower str8. Steve | ||
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| Re: NL Hand- Would you call?, Risky Business, 15. Oct 2003 07:46 | ||
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| Point made. I must admit, that's how I play NL on-line. Won a nice pot just last night with 8-5off in the SB with 5 limpers. Flopped FH. on 15. Oct 2003 04:58 shorn wrote: > Risky- > > That's tough to say. In a limping NL game, I would play that same hand on the button with that > many folks in assuming that they were relatively deep in chips, so I don't consider it that loose a > play. I find that often the best strategy in the online NL games is to limp a lot with hands that > can turn into monsters and then fold if someone behind you shows a lot of strength. The reason for > this is that all you need to do is hit 1 or 2 hands a session to be ahead a ton of $$ because online > most players will call you down for all of their chips with second best hands. > > So, I think that the button is a solid player who hit his perfect flop against others who had the > lower str8. > > Steve | ||
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| Re: NL Hand- Would you call?, Mark, 14. Oct 2003 17:23 | ||
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| on 14. Oct 2003 11:11 shorn wrote: > Mark- > > Good points. However, I don't like making raises on draws in NL because if you raise > into a made hand, you commit a lot of chips potentially without getting to see any more > cards. But, I agree that you could push someone off a weaker hand in this case. Because of the board, a flop raise will tell you alot of things. 1 if you get reraised after showing considerable strenght (a check raise from ep) you have a much better idea of what your up against (ie. a made hand) Now you know that you are drawing to 4 cards for the nuts ( i would then fold) 2. if you get called you can assume you're up against a made hand or draw. You will find out which on the turn. 3. if everyone folds you win a small pot. But thats how i play. I like the Brunsonian aggressive moves. Mark | ||
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| Re: NL Hand- Would you call?, shorn, 15. Oct 2003 05:15 | ||
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| Mark- Well thought out. In this case, I don't know if it would have changed anything as the button obviously would have called. But, at least then I could have slowed down a bit on the turn and then potentially folded to a big turn or river bet from him (although with hitting the str8 on the turn, it would be a tough fold). I find it hard to dump a made hand where the aggressor needs two cards to beat me and in a game where bluffing on the end can be so prevalent. Thanks for the thoughts though. Steve | ||
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