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Server Time: 8/30/2008 2:00:22 AM PACIFIC |
 Pre Flop Raising, bofund, 14. Oct 2003 00:43 | ||
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| Hi, I've been playing online for a while and have noticed a lot of tables I play at have players that raise and re raise pre flop. My first instinct is to get out of there even though I know that they all can't have big starting hands. Is there any situation when it is correct to get involved in a raising war pre flop? | ||
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| Re: Pre Flop Raising, 4 POKER, 14. Oct 2003 04:02 | ||
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| on 14. Oct 2003 00:43 bofund wrote: > Hi, > > I've been playing online for a while and have noticed a lot of tables I play at > have players that raise and re raise pre flop. My first instinct is to get out > of there even though I know that they all can't have big starting hands. > Is there any situation when it is correct to get involved in a raising war pre > flop? > Hi bofound, Take a look at the hands they are raising with pre-flop. Perhaps the initial raisor is raising with a hand like AQ, and the re-raisor is raising him back with JJ or 10-10 trying to get the other players to fold as a means to "protect" his good hand; but one that is still vulnerable in a multi-way pot, so he therefore (by 3 betting it pre-flop) is trying to eliminate that scenerio from happening. (that's just one example). The times when "you" want to be a part of a raising war is when you yourself have a very good starting hand, also. Even if you suspect that they all can't have good starting hands, you still don't want to get involved if your own hand doesn't warrant multiple bets to come in with. Sometimes you may get caught in the middle preflop with a hand that is worth say 2 bets but then it gets raised and re-raised again. That can also happen and sometimes it's correct to put in the extra bets, but sometimes it's not. It also depends on the actual player who is making that pre-flop raise (or re-raise) and what his standards for raising are. (that's one factor to consider, but there are several more, as well). Hands that you may want to avoid getting involved with are hands that may be dominated by the original raisors at hand. Example: Calling multiple raises with A-10, K-Q, A-J, are hands that other players can "hurt" you with if you do happen to flop a pair because they may have flopped a set with the very same card. Or, you flop top pair but they have a bigger wired pair in the pocket. (you have A-J and flop top pair Jack, but they're holding K-K, for example). If you're experiencing some difficulties with games that are too aggresive, then trying to find a more passive game might be the better choice for you (right now). Just know that YOU want to put your chips in the pot when you think you have the best hand or a hand that is worth calling all those raises with, and how you play your own hands post-flop is one thing that you *must* consider before you get overly involved pre-flop. That's why passive type games can be easier sometimes to play in, but usually, I like a game that has an 'even mix' of players. Not too passive, but not too aggresive either. For me, I think I have better control over a game when I feel that alot of my pre-flop raises will be 'effective' pre-flop and post-flop as well. That's why I always play against weaker opponents than myself. (not more passive types.....just weaker in general). It will make it that much easier for you to earn money. Chose the type of game that best suits your style of play and your decision making will become that much easier for you, as well. (game selection is very important). (Just some thoughts here, and I hope it helps a bit). good luck to you. 4P- | ||
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| Re: Pre Flop Raising, bofund, 14. Oct 2003 05:41 | ||
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| Yes, thankyou 4poker. I am starting to find that certain tables are just not right for me. For example I was playing online at paradise and sat in with some very aggressive players. They were raising and re raising almost every hand. I lost about $30 in a 1/2 room before I finally decided to leave. I paid for that lesson, but learned it I did!! That said, there must be a way to beat these people. I noticed that their bankroll wasn't particularly doing anything. They'd win big pots but then they'd lose the next big pot. I don't think that this is or ever would be my style of play. I can play aggressively when I have a hand but thats about it. Does this style of play make money in the long run? Would love to know your thoughts bf | ||
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| Re: Pre Flop Raising, 4 POKER, 14. Oct 2003 06:54 | ||
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| on 14. Oct 2003 05:41 bofund wrote: > Yes, thankyou 4poker. > > I am starting to find that certain tables are just not right for me. For example I was > playing online at paradise and sat in with some very aggressive players. They were > raising and re raising almost every hand. I lost about $30 in a 1/2 room before I finally > decided to leave. I paid for that lesson, but learned it I did!! > That said, there must be a way to beat these people. I noticed that their bankroll > wasn't particularly doing anything. They'd win big pots but then they'd lose the next big > pot. > I don't think that this is or ever would be my style of play. I can play aggressively > when I have a hand but thats about it. Does this style of play make money in the long > run? > > Would love to know your thoughts > > bf Hey bf, Here are some of my thoughts on the subject.... Players that play 'over-aggresive' poker will have bigger swings. Players that are reading their opponents incorrectly when playing in this fashion, will have even huger swings....especially at on-line poker, (and will not do well overall). Whereas, players that play an aggresive and calculated style of poker, and have great reading abilities....will show positive overall results, (as long as 'everything' else is in tact). (My advice to you) is to "only" play in games where you feel comfortable and your bets, raises, etc.. stand a good chance at being effective. You must feel confident when you sit down in the game or you're going to get outplayed (and bullied around) too many times by these overly aggresive players. (and that wouldn't be a good thing). So I'm glad you chose to leave that game! (good for you). Pick a game where YOU can be the favorite when taking into consideration on what 'your' style of play is and how that may be of good/effective use to YOU!! With more experience, the development of your own game should improve if you are able to apply all that you have learned. The more edges you have over your opponents.......the better. (Be patient and stay disciplined). Good luck. 4P- | ||
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| Re: Pre Flop Raising, Blade, 14. Oct 2003 07:53 | ||
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| I would just like to add that when playing in these ultra aggressive game it is important to know how these players will play after the flop. More often than not in the games I am involved in these same raise happy players will go passive after the flop and either fold or better yet turn into a calling station with bottom pair when there is no A or K on the board. This is vital because even when playing poor cards a good flop can come, if they hit they will stay aggressive. You need to recognize this, note the difference, and avoid paying them off. I would say that if they reriase you on the flop, your KK or AA needs help. | ||
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| Re: Pre Flop Raising, Big_Loser1, 14. Oct 2003 18:37 | ||
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| I agree, I was in a game with a player who would raise and cap it with almost anything. Other players recognized this and they would re-raise him pre flop. They didn't realize that after the flop if he re-raised someone he almost always had the best hand and usually the nuts, other wise he would call and sometimes fold. I was about the only one that picked up on this. Everyone else thought that he was still that crazy player that raises with anything, so they kept raising him back. Don't think that just because a player acts one way in one betting round that he will do the same in all. | ||
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| Re: Pre Flop Raising, LJH, 20. Oct 2003 16:02 | ||
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| BOFUND, YES, WHEN YOU HAVE ACES. LJH | ||
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| Re: Pre Flop Raising, Roy Cooke, 21. Oct 2003 09:01 | ||
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| Yes...When you have the best hand! Big wired pairs are a good place to start raising wars. Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 14. Oct 2003 00:43 bofund wrote: > Hi, > > I've been playing online for a while and have noticed a lot of tables I play at > have players that raise and re raise pre flop. My first instinct is to get out > of there even though I know that they all can't have big starting hands. > Is there any situation when it is correct to get involved in a raising war pre > flop? > | ||
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