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Server Time: 9/5/2008 5:12:13 PM PACIFIC |
 PL O8 hand, Schuster, 12. Oct 2003 16:23 | ||
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| I've been sitting at a pot limit O8 table for about half an hour. Prior, I had won a big pot when I flopped the nut straight and 2nd nut low. I rammed and jammed and had 3 others come along the whole way. I was fully expecting to take half and have at least 2 others with the nut low, but to my surprise, I scooped the whole thing. This has put me with the big stack at the table, around $60 at a $25 buy in table. The table was not very eager to let go of made hands, even if they were not the nuts or close. All day long, my reads in my hold'em games had been spot on, my plays had been good, and I really felt like I was playing my A game. I'm dealt 9TJQ in the small blind and after 4 limpers I complete. The big blind checks his option. The flop is 6-7-8 rainbow. At this point I'm thinking I like my hand a lot, but I check to see how the action goes. Someone surely has a made low, and I wasn't going to play unless there were a lot of others to come along for the ride. The next player bets out the minimum. This player seemed to have a concept of how to play, in that he knew that his hand wasn't good if it wasn't the nuts or close, but I don't think he paid a lot of attention to being quartered,especially for low. There is a call and then the cutoff raises the pot to 5.35. The button calls, and I call. The button and the cutoff were two of the players who were in the big pot with me earlier, and didn't seem to have much clue what they were doing. I call, and the EP player who originally bet out raises to $15. The original caller calls all in for $10 more, and the cutoff raises all in to $24.50. At this point, the EP player has only $5 left, and I put him the rest of the way in. My thinking was the two raisers were probably on nut low, and the caller was just along for the ride. Even if someone else shared the nut straight with me, I thought I would be pretty good odds to improve by the river. The turn was an offsuit king, and the river was another king. The high hand was taken by the cutoff holding 7-8-8-9, and the other 2 split the low half of the pot. Looking back, I am pretty sure I played it right and just got outdrawn, but I'd like to hear from some of the more experienced O8 players. I recall a bit of wisdom about throwing a nut straight away on the flop if you have no chance of low and the board is all low cards, I believe it was from Mark Gregorich's seminar on the game. But in this case, I figured that since there were a lot of people around, making the call would be +EV. Thoughts? Lee | ||
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| Re: PL O8 hand, Barry T, 13. Oct 2003 01:15 | ||
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| Hi. Boy I do not like that call. First, as you know, itis a generally a bad idea to play for hi only when a made low is out. Second, a straight on the flop, even with straight (but not full house or flush redraws) is a very vulnerable hand. And with extra players, it means they have outs. You could easilt be tied right now by a player with T988 who is freerolling a full house ( and yes I see you might make a better straight). In general, straights on the flop are not playable. Let's take a player with A277. Would you like to be him or you? Honestly, you should have let it go for the raise. Pot Limit is not about winning all the pots you can, or even the ones you are a (small) favorite in. PLO/8 is about waiting for a very good hand with redraws (remember the redraws) and then pounding. Like the nice pot you won. Nuts WITH REDRAWS. BarryT | ||
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| Re: PL O8 hand, grant pittman, 13. Oct 2003 06:17 | ||
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| Schuster it may sound a little extreme here but in pot-limit O8 that hand needs to go in the muck. You will be playing for half the pot for sure AND YOU WON'T be playing for much of your opponent's money....rather they will be playing for YOURS!!!!! You have no low draw and they are already there and will be getting half of whatever you put into the pot from there on!!! You have higher straight redraws but this is NOT the type of redraw I want if I'm putting my money in. I want the nut lock redraw (flopped set with current nuts) or I fold....that simple. The security in having the nut redraw does not come from the fact that you will make your hand and scoop the high as much as from the fact that if YOU have it then THEY don't!!!!! It looked good on the flop....kinda like every used car does on the lot. Just a thought. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: PL O8 hand, Schuster, 13. Oct 2003 08:42 | ||
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| Barry and Grant, Thanks for the insight. I'm still trying to wrap my head around Omaha and I know I am making mistakes like this a lot. And don't worry about being extreme, I'd rather learn the how's and why's of the game and have my ego beat around than have things sugar coated. Since I play mostly hold'em, I guess I just kinda fell in love with my hand. Next time I'll make the right decision and get out of there. Again, thanks for the help! Lee | ||
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| Re: PL O8 hand, noiseboy, 13. Oct 2003 10:48 | ||
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| What about this same situation in regular PLO? You think he should go ahead and get the money in? I know if there is two to a suit, I don't like to get all my money in, but with the flop rainbow it seems OK. Thanks. | ||
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| Re: PL O8 hand, 4 POKER, 13. Oct 2003 11:08 | ||
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| Hey noiseboy, IF it were PLO (straight high only), 9-10-J-Q is a MUCH stronger hand. Had it been PLO his call would definitely be correct coming in. (However, the two games are totally different and the players who were in there jamming the low would not even be a part of this pot). Not to mention, the player who was holding the set of eights would have to release his hand now on the turn when the King came if he was faced with another pot sized bet. Flopping sets with no redraw can be costly as well, in PLO8, and PLO high. (especially middle sets...yuk!). In PLO, when you flop the nut straight with a rainbow board, AND you have redraws to the higher nut straight (as with 9-10-J-Q, with a flop of 6-7-8)........it is correct to put your chips in the pot. What comes out on the turn, will/should determine your betting strategies as well. And sometimes you'll be mucking that straight on the turn, but that depends on A)how many opponents you are up against, B)how well do you read your players, C) your stack size vs. their stack size, D) what card was it exactly and did you pick up another redraw with that card, etc. etc. PLO (high) is all about playing wrap straight cards, (high wraps preferred), and A-A suited with two strong cards, (K-Q, K-10, etc.), are the hands to look for in this game. 4P- | ||
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| Re: PL O8 hand, noiseboy, 13. Oct 2003 10:46 | ||
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| I say drop that hand in the first place. The problem is that you are only playing for half the pot. With that many players there is likely a set out there trying to beat you if the board pairs. With that many players, the backdoor flush is likely fatal as well. Overall, all you have is a possible high, and NO low. In PLO without the 8 or better, it's OK to play this hand, but in 8 or better, you shouldn't do it unless you have a possible low to go with it. Good luck! | ||
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