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Server Time: 10/11/2008 10:22:50 AM PACIFIC |
 ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, ADAM THE EXPERT, 12. Oct 2003 07:55 | ||
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| RECENTLY, ADAM THE EXPERT TOOK ON DAVE 'DEVILFISH' ELLIOT, IN A NO LIMIT GAME, ON U.B. THE HAND IS WORTH REVIEWING, AS IT IS A CLASSIC ILLUSTRATION, OF THE TYPE OF THINKING YOU WILL NEED TO LEARN TO DO, TO BECOME A TOP PLAYER. IT ALSO SHOWS THE KIND OF MISTAKES YOU CAN MAKE, WE WILL LOOK AT THE WHOLE HAND, TRY TO DETERMINE WHAT DEVILFISH WAS THINKING, AND REVIEW EACH OPPONENT'S PLAY, AND GO OVER MISTAKES. EACH OF US STARTS THE HAND, WITH ABOUT 800 DOLLARS, HAVING BUILT UP FROM THE MAXIMUM 400 ADAM THE EXPERT, IS ON THE BUTTON WITH A : K 10 s Devilfish raises one four dollar limper, to $22. Adam the Expert calls. Mistake number one, I have NO business calling with such a hand, but if you have to make mistakes, let them be minor. Of course, if I don't have a GREAT flop, I'm NOT losing all my chips with Kings ten kicker. I will rate my mistake as a 20, on a scale of 1 to 800 The flop is : 9 5 3 with two clubs. Devilfish bets 45 Adam the expert calls. Mistake, rating: 10 on our scale. but, I believed that a ten was good, possibly a king, and of course the flush If I got it. I also felt, that if Devilfish did NOT have anything, I could have it checked to me, if the flush card did not come. Very hard to bet again with only overcards, once you have been called for $130. Notice how, assuming that Devilfish puts in his whole stack should i make the flush, The implied odds are correct for a call, especially because of the reasonable chance for a check on the turn, should he just have an unimproved big card hand. Further, I may be able to move him off such a hand, with a semi bluff bet on the turn. Actually, I'm lowering my mistake, to about 5, considering all this The turn is a club, non pair, and none ace, giving me the second nuts. Devilfish bets $130 Now, here is where a TREMENDOUS amount of thought is involved. Usually, Adam the Expert never never never gives any free cards, but in this situation, it is quite possible that Mr. Devilfish, is drawing dead. I put him on one of the following hands: AA QQ or AQ of clubs. I beat all but one of these. If he has the nuts, i will save three or four hundred, as he will probably NOT bet me all in on the river, wanting some value. Of the six combinations of pocket aces out there, three contain the club, and three do not. same for the queens. If he has the non club Aces, or any of the queens, he is drawing DEAD, so why should I raise him out. If he has the aces with the club draw, he will probably call my all in raise, and I will be out of the game, if another one hits. Of course, The odds are now 46/8 of another club hitting, and three quarters of the time, I will still win anyway, so the chances of me losing by giving a free card, are actually very very remote. Also, Using the Baye's theorum thing that MM DS and RC LOVE to use. Of the possible hands which I put my opponent on, it is 13-1 against him having the one hand (AQclubs) which I belive he would play this way, and which beats me. By not raising, I am almost assured that he will be again, if a non scare card hits the river, or will pay off a pot size bet, if he checks. But, remember, these big tournament players, LOVE, they DEARLY LOVE, to try to push people around in live games, usually because they just won some big money, and they don't care. NOT because they really think they can. There is one more reason why he tried to Jam his way through, but for that answer, you would have to become a full-price student. Sorry, this one is just toooooo good to give away. Anyway, the river pairs the board with fours, looking like: 9 3 4 6 4 three clubs. He comes out of the gate, with a $600 bet, into a $380 pot. Warning bells go off inside my head. He could actually have nines full, and Adam the Expert was wrong all the way. He could still have the nut flush. But, if holding one of those hands, would he actually make a bet so large, that it couldn't be called. I thought nines full was unlikely, and now, anyone with the nut flush, should be afraid of a possible full, yet this guy showed no fear, SMELLED LIKE BULL TO ME. CALL. He turns over an Ace Deuce OFFSUIT!!!!!!!!!!!1 What, this guy has a money tree. If adam the expert calls you on the turn, with a flush card hitting, he either has a big flush, or a set, so now when the board pairs, you are doomed. But, he didn't know that. Mistake value for his bet on the end, about 500 I don't think he went into the famous Malmuth Sklansky concept of: what do you think they think you think they think. If he had, he could have put me on a big flush, and saved six bills. If you want to become great in no limit: PUT YOUR THINKING CAPS on, and MASTER the you think they think thing. Read Malmuth and Sklansky books, to learn this. And NO, I don't work for them. As usual, Adam the Expert's recommandation is NOT for sale. I only recommend that which is good for you, my grasshoppers. Later | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, Jacks-and-Nines, 12. Oct 2003 13:37 | ||
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| You sir, are a douchebag. | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, Blade, 12. Oct 2003 13:56 | ||
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| Wow that was quite an insightful post J&N. I especially like how you state your conclusion and then back it up with clear evidence & or reasoned opinion. Otherwise sir, one may conclude that you are infact the dueche bag. | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, Mark, 12. Oct 2003 14:05 | ||
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| LMAO hahahahha | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, Schuster, 12. Oct 2003 14:13 | ||
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| The purpose of this forum is to promote honest poker in a friendly and informative way. We aspire to be the main meeting place for poker on the web, endorsed by many major names and entities and open to poker players worldwide of all levels of interest. While Adam is certainly extremely arrogant, and it does bug the heck out of me, this kind of post is certainly not constructive. Besdies, once you get past the arrogance displayed, the thoughts behind it are good, and these are the kinds of things people should be thinking about when playing no limit poker, but too often in hands they post, they aren't. Lee | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, KJo, 12. Oct 2003 15:10 | ||
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| Lee, you're right about the tone, but I'll back up J&9's comment. All we get are arrogant, all-capped, hard to read posts with questionable advice from a self-proclaimed expert, who the whole while is looking down his nose at all of us. Anytime someone asks him what his qualifications are (or what book he has allegedly written), the question is ignored. Eli on 12. Oct 2003 14:13 Schuster wrote: > The purpose of this forum is to promote honest poker in a friendly and informative way. > We aspire to be the main meeting place for poker on the web, endorsed by many major names > and entities and open to poker players worldwide of all levels of interest. > > While Adam is certainly extremely arrogant, and it does bug the heck out of me, this kind > of post is certainly not constructive. > > Besdies, once you get past the arrogance displayed, the thoughts behind it are good, and > these are the kinds of things people should be thinking about when playing no limit poker, > but too often in hands they post, they aren't. > > Lee > > | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, modestmice, 12. Oct 2003 15:48 | ||
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| adam is a funny guy. i know people like all of you here at the poker room and the racetrack. i guess it would be unavoidable to have a good poker forum without the same people show up...lol on 12. Oct 2003 15:10 KJo wrote: > Lee, you're right about the tone, but I'll back up J&9's comment. All we get are arrogant, > all-capped, hard to read posts with questionable advice from a self-proclaimed expert, who the > whole while is looking down his nose at all of us. Anytime someone asks him what his > qualifications are (or what book he has allegedly written), the question is ignored. > > Eli > > > on 12. Oct 2003 14:13 Schuster wrote: > > The purpose of this forum is to promote honest poker in a friendly and informative way. > > > We aspire to be the main meeting place for poker on the web, endorsed by many major names > > and entities and open to poker players worldwide of all levels of interest. > > > > While Adam is certainly extremely arrogant, and it does bug the heck out of me, this kind > > of post is certainly not constructive. > > > > Besdies, once you get past the arrogance displayed, the thoughts behind it are good, and > > these are the kinds of things people should be thinking about when playing no limit poker, > > > but too often in hands they post, they aren't. > > > > Lee > > > > | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, Blade, 12. Oct 2003 16:02 | ||
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| I agree completely. I look forward to his post like no other. His third person, self congratulating post crack me up everytime. Besides that I find him very informative and not hard to follow at all. For example it was obvious from the post that he had K10 clubs as there would be no point in discussing the flush. Let's face it this forum would be quite dull if we didn't have our share of characters like Adam. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK ADAM WHETHER YOU ARE INDEEED AN EXPERT OR NOT> | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, modestmice, 12. Oct 2003 16:14 | ||
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| LOL on 12. Oct 2003 16:02 Blade wrote: > I agree completely. I look forward to his post like no other. His third person, self congratulating > post crack me up everytime. Besides that I find him very informative and not hard to follow at all. > For example it was obvious from the post that he had K10 clubs as there would be no point in discussing > the flush. > > Let's face it this forum would be quite dull if we didn't have our share of characters like Adam. > > KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK ADAM WHETHER YOU ARE INDEEED AN EXPERT OR NOT> | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, Jav, 13. Oct 2003 15:33 | ||
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| I don't care if Adam the Arrogant is half as good as he says he is. I have no time for his self-congratulatory crap. His style and tone can only hurt this forum, not help it. When you act like a jerk, you shouldn't be surpised when people react accordingly. | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, Mark, 12. Oct 2003 14:19 | ||
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| Adam, Your posts are generally very hard to read don't seem to make sense. Dave bet $45 and then he can't bet again cause you called $130? Also, i can only assume your K10 suited were clubs, it would have really helped if you stated that. Try typing with logical paragraphs and a maybe ask a question or two. Also, you seem to think this forum is a good place to brag about how good you are. I'm only speaking for myself but , " i don't care if you are any good." I come here to discuss stradegies not read about how good you think you are. Mark | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, noiseboy, 13. Oct 2003 12:44 | ||
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| INTERESTING POST, BUT NOISEBOY WONDERS WHY YOU ALWAYS REFER TO YOURSELF IN THE THIRD PERSON AND USE ALL CAPS. ;) ALSO IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF YOU COULD INCLUDE WHAT POSITION EACH PLAYER IS COMING FROM AND HOW MANY PLAYERS ARE AT THE TABLE OTHER THAN THE TWO OF YOU. Actually, I think your play was pretty good. Devilfish is known as someone who will play without a hand if he thinks you are weak. So against really aggressive players you tend to call more and let them bluff away their money. | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, Kymmer, 13. Oct 2003 13:49 | ||
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| Your narrative is very hard to follow - at first the hand starts out with a 9 5 3 flop, the turn seems to be skipped (for a moment I thought DF bet *twice* on the flop....) until later when you describe the river and the board reads 934 6 4, with a magically changing flop. If the board was, indeed, 953 64, then DF's remaining in the hand makes a tad more sense, although I have to agree the flush draw should have caused him to put *his* ego and check and lay down the hand or make it much more expensive to call, perhaps. Ennyway, you *may* be an expert on poker, but you need work on your writing and TYPING skills, darlin'. ;-) | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, gary ford, 13. Oct 2003 21:47 | ||
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| Well ADAM you've managed to polarize the forum. Blade and mice rush to your defense. Others desribe you as arrogant but with thoughtful comments. Schuster is diplomatic , as usual. and the rest of us think you are a childish buffon. That is why we have a forum. Some of you younger folks mIght take a lesson in diplomacy from Lee, however | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, Schuster, 13. Oct 2003 22:05 | ||
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| You know, I'd be willing to bet that I'm one of the youngest folks on here =P Lee | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, Angel, 13. Oct 2003 22:06 | ||
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| That one can't tell says quite alot about you. ;) | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, Bungus, 13. Oct 2003 22:16 | ||
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| I'll call your bet, and raise you every thing I got (one weeks pay check from McDonalds: $127.35) ...just kidding, I make more than that playing 1-2 tables... | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, gary ford, 13. Oct 2003 23:07 | ||
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| age is relative---maturity is what matters | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, modestmice, 13. Oct 2003 23:11 | ||
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| on 13. Oct 2003 23:07 gary ford wrote: > age is relative---maturity is what matters maturity is over-rated When I played pool I was like a good psychiatrist. I cured them of all their daydreams and delusions." -- Minnesota Fats | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, gary ford, 14. Oct 2003 00:45 | ||
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| the curse of the young is they do not know what it is they do not know | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, modestmice, 14. Oct 2003 01:12 | ||
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| on 14. Oct 2003 00:45 gary ford wrote: > the curse of the young is they do not know what it is they do not know blah blah blah , gary "Some of the truly weakest players are those who think they know it all. Know-it-all-ism is one of the most exploitable weaknesses a player can have." --Steve Badger | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, modestmice, 13. Oct 2003 23:03 | ||
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| as usual, garys a crank. sorry if i have a rare sense of humor on this forum. if people cant handle an annoying personality then i REALLY DONT KNOW WHAT YER DOIN IN POKER LOL on 13. Oct 2003 21:47 gary ford wrote: > Well ADAM you've managed to polarize the forum. Blade and mice rush to your defense. > Others desribe you as arrogant but with thoughtful comments. Schuster is diplomatic , > as usual. and the rest of us think you are a childish buffon. That is why we have a > forum. Some of you younger folks mIght take a lesson in diplomacy from Lee, however When I played pool I was like a good psychiatrist. I cured them of all their daydreams and delusions." -- Minnesota Fats | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, gary ford, 13. Oct 2003 23:05 | ||
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| surprise, surprise, mouse, its not all about you | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, JLenart, 14. Oct 2003 15:45 | ||
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| ADAM THE EXPERT, You're my HERO....LOL. Try being just a bit more self agrandizing you pud. | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, Jordan, 16. Oct 2003 14:33 | ||
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| I don't know why anybody would get pissed off and angry at Adam. I think his posts are hilarious. While he does think highly of himself I don't see him putting down other players that much. If you do think it's annoying that's fine, but there's no need to flame him in an online forum. It's better just to keep those thoughts in your head. The second you start flaming somebody you are already lowering yourself to that level. | ||
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| Re: ADAM TAKES ON THE DEVILFISH, modestmice, 17. Oct 2003 19:40 | ||
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| on 16. Oct 2003 14:33 Jordan wrote: > I don't know why anybody would get pissed off and angry at Adam. I think his posts are > hilarious. While he does think highly of himself I don't see him putting down other > players that much. If you do think it's annoying that's fine, but there's no need to > flame him in an online forum. It's better just to keep those thoughts in your head. The > second you start flaming somebody you are already lowering yourself to that level. adam even states that he created this personality specifically to be annoying, and it works like a charm. the fact that he annoys so well is amazing in itself. however, it gets tiring to see all the negative comments after every single one of his posts. i dont understand that. i think is all in good fun (no pun intended) and ridiculous to take him serious and/or flame him. duh. ------------------------------------------------------------- "I prefer talking with old persons of the female sex who peddle family gossip; next, with the insane-and last, with very sensible people" -S. Kierkegaard | ||
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