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Critique this tournament hand, Schuster, 11. Oct 2003 16:09
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It's early in a multi table tournament on Party and I have about 1200 in chips. My table has been extremely passive so far. I would say that of all the preflop raises, about 75% of them were by your truly, and I just took down the blinds each time. I haven't been raising that much though as my cards have been a little below average. I'd say I made 4 or 5 raises in about 40 hands, and my play has been tight otherwise, but the pots I have been in, I really put the pressure on, especially when I was up against the player in the small blind. I get the feeling he is at least a little fearful of me and will let a hand go to some heat unless it is strong. The cutoff and the button have been very tight so far, and both have around 900 chips. The small blind has about 600, and the big blind is around 500. The blinds are 15 and 30.

I'm 2 off the button with 2 black fives and it's folded to me. I raise to 90 and only the small blind calls. The flop is 4-3-3 with 2 diamonds and he bets the minimum at me. I had folded some hands to minimum bets earlier, but they were pretty hopeless. I get the feeling he is on high cards and wants to see where I am, or a flush draw. I raise to 200 to protect my hand and to get him off his flush, but he calls, leaving him with only 285 left. This worries me, and at this point, I'm suspecting he has a bigger overpair, maybe something like 77 or 88.

The turn is an offsuit 6 giving me the open end draw. He checks. Here's where I'm not sure I made the right decision. I check it back, thinking he probably has me beaten, and I'll take the free card to see if I can't fill or make the straight. The river is an offsuit 8 and he checks, and I check it back. He shows down Kd Jd for a busted flush draw.

It's a pretty ordinary hand, but something about it is nagging me. I really thought he was pot committed, but should I have bet the turn? Or was checking the way to go? If I would have bet, I probably would have put him all in. What do you think?

Lee
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Re: Critique this tournament hand, modestmice, 11. Oct 2003 16:49
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lee, check is ok in that spot, if your real worried about a player who will call 90 with anything. as it stands he must have a decent hand that probably includes overcards or is a pp. (but he could have a suited Ace with a 3, never know) but he just called your large bet on the flop, so why just call? he is either on a draw or is slow playing his set trying to be tricky or has overcards. since you raised to 90 preflop he wouldnt really put you on having a 3, so if he held a nice pocket pair he would have been aggressive with it and probably raised you pre flop on on the flop. so no pp for him, i dont think. so he would check if he has a flush draw or overcards on the turn and possibly a monster, knowing that u will bet after showing lots of strengnth so far, then raise you. since you also check, you dont know what the hell is going on with this guy, but i think you could of bet something here without much risk to find out he was on a draw. if he calls again, he probably is on a draw. if he raises, u might be screwed, but u have a openended str draw too, so ur in ok shape to call. after betting the turn i would bet the river if he checked again. i understand the checks, with 5-5, but u had position on him and unless he was a trickster, u coulda been more aggressive.

h. on 11. Oct 2003 16:09 Schuster wrote:
> It's early in a multi table tournament on Party and I have about 1200 in chips.
> My table has been extremely passive so far. I would say that of all the preflop
> raises, about 75% of them were by your truly, and I just took down the blinds
> each time. I haven't been raising that much though as my cards have been a
> little below average. I'd say I made 4 or 5 raises in about 40 hands, and my
> play has been tight otherwise, but the pots I have been in, I really put the
> pressure on, especially when I was up against the player in the small blind. I
> get the feeling he is at least a little fearful of me and will let a hand go to
> some heat unless it is strong. The cutoff and the button have been very tight
> so far, and both have around 900 chips. The small blind has about 600, and the
> big blind is around 500. The blinds are 15 and 30.
>
> I'm 2 off the button with 2 black fives and it's folded to me. I raise to 90
> and only the small blind calls. The flop is 4-3-3 with 2 diamonds and he bets
> the minimum at me. I had folded some hands to minimum bets earlier, but they
> were pretty hopeless. I get the feeling he is on high cards and wants to see
> where I am, or a flush draw. I raise to 200 to protect my hand and to get him
> off his flush, but he calls, leaving him with only 285 left. This worries me,
> and at this point, I'm suspecting he has a bigger overpair, maybe something like
> 77 or 88.
>
> The turn is an offsuit 6 giving me the open end draw. He checks. Here's where
> I'm not sure I made the right decision. I check it back, thinking he probably
> has me beaten, and I'll take the free card to see if I can't fill or make the
> straight. The river is an offsuit 8 and he checks, and I check it back. He
> shows down Kd Jd for a busted flush draw.
>
> It's a pretty ordinary hand, but something about it is nagging me. I really
> thought he was pot committed, but should I have bet the turn? Or was checking
> the way to go? If I would have bet, I probably would have put him all in. What
> do you think?
>
> Lee
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Re: Critique this tournament hand, modestmice, 11. Oct 2003 16:52
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also, lee, why do think he would go all in witha flush draw if you bet?!?

on 11. Oct 2003 16:49 modestmice wrote:
> lee, check is ok in that spot, if your real worried about a player who will call 90
> with anything. as it stands he must have a decent hand that probably includes
> overcards or is a pp. (but he could have a suited Ace with a 3, never know) but he
> just called your large bet on the flop, so why just call? he is either on a draw or
> is slow playing his set trying to be tricky or has overcards. since you raised to 90
> preflop he wouldnt really put you on having a 3, so if he held a nice pocket pair he
> would have been aggressive with it and probably raised you pre flop on on the flop.
> so no pp for him, i dont think. so he would check if he has a flush draw or overcards
> on the turn and possibly a monster, knowing that u will bet after showing lots of
> strengnth so far, then raise you. since you also check, you dont know what the hell
> is going on with this guy, but i think you could of bet something here without much
> risk to find out he was on a draw. if he calls again, he probably is on a draw. if
> he raises, u might be screwed, but u have a openended str draw too, so ur in ok shape
> to call. after betting the turn i would bet the river if he checked again. i
> understand the checks, with 5-5, but u had position on him and unless he was a
> trickster, u coulda been more aggressive.
>
> h. on 11. Oct 2003 16:09 Schuster wrote:
> > It's early in a multi table tournament on Party and I have about 1200 in chips.
>
> > My table has been extremely passive so far. I would say that of all the preflop
>
> > raises, about 75% of them were by your truly, and I just took down the blinds
> > each time. I haven't been raising that much though as my cards have been a
> > little below average. I'd say I made 4 or 5 raises in about 40 hands, and my
> > play has been tight otherwise, but the pots I have been in, I really put the
> > pressure on, especially when I was up against the player in the small blind. I
> > get the feeling he is at least a little fearful of me and will let a hand go to
> > some heat unless it is strong. The cutoff and the button have been very tight
> > so far, and both have around 900 chips. The small blind has about 600, and the
> > big blind is around 500. The blinds are 15 and 30.
> >
> > I'm 2 off the button with 2 black fives and it's folded to me. I raise to 90
> > and only the small blind calls. The flop is 4-3-3 with 2 diamonds and he bets
> > the minimum at me. I had folded some hands to minimum bets earlier, but they
> > were pretty hopeless. I get the feeling he is on high cards and wants to see
> > where I am, or a flush draw. I raise to 200 to protect my hand and to get him
> > off his flush, but he calls, leaving him with only 285 left. This worries me,
> > and at this point, I'm suspecting he has a bigger overpair, maybe something like
>
> > 77 or 88.
> >
> > The turn is an offsuit 6 giving me the open end draw. He checks. Here's where
> > I'm not sure I made the right decision. I check it back, thinking he probably
> > has me beaten, and I'll take the free card to see if I can't fill or make the
> > straight. The river is an offsuit 8 and he checks, and I check it back. He
> > shows down Kd Jd for a busted flush draw.
> >
> > It's a pretty ordinary hand, but something about it is nagging me. I really
> > thought he was pot committed, but should I have bet the turn? Or was checking
> > the way to go? If I would have bet, I probably would have put him all in. What
>
> > do you think?
> >
> > Lee
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Re: Critique this tournament hand, Skeeter011, 12. Oct 2003 23:30
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I don't disagree with your decision before the flop, after the flop and, after the turn. But after he checks on the turn you almost have to figure he is on the flush draw or strait draw. Checking the turn was a good move cause your on the short stack. But checking the river after he has checked the turn, I don't find that a good move. See If he did have something and checks the turn and river that takes the check raise, and slow roll out of play. Now betting on the flop was a good decision by him. Cause he was in the small blind and called which mean you can almost put him on any two cards. Now the flop comes three low cards. After your raise he is putting you on two over cards. But after you call the flop bet he made. He is now putting you on pocket pair. Which is why he checked the turn and the river. But with you not betting on the river that gives him the chance to win. Unless you did bet. Your on the short stack so why not go all in. Cause if you only bet 50, 100 he is going to call just cause has over cards. But if you move all in most likely he would have folded. To sum it up, it was played well on both by both you and your opponent, but you shouldn't have checked the river.
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