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Server Time: 12/1/2008 2:34:17 PM PACIFIC |
 KK Lay Down, Dr_Monkey, 11. Oct 2003 15:38 | ||
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| I was in a $10 SnG on Party. Blind 25/50 with 8 players left. 2 large stack, rest were about same size, probably 450-900. I am UTG, with KK. Normally I would raise this hand, but I decide to change it up some. Partly because I just won a decent pot by raising preflop, getting one caller, then winning the pot with a pot sized bet when I had nothing. My plan was to see the flop cheaply, if a ace hit, I could fold. If not, bet hard, maybe all in. 1 caller then next player went all in for 500. All folded to me. My concern was maybe he had AA. I know the odds are against that but I wasn't worried about my chip count. I had 850 and the 2 chip leaders were keeping the others in check. I actually was 3rd, maybe 4th to a player with maybe 900. My opinion of the player with 900 was he would bust soon based on his bad hands and suck out luck. My thoughts on the all in player were they could be on any Ax or smaller pair. Betting 500 to win 3.5 BB seems a bit desperate. But this is party and this bet could be AA hoping to trap some maniac. If we were 5 or less players, I think I would have called the all in. Crazy thinking? I folded not willing to risk the SnG this early especially when I wasn't worried about my play (i.e. I felt I was one of the best players there) and I wasn't worried about my stack size. Comment? | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, Schuster, 11. Oct 2003 15:54 | ||
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| I might catch some heat for this because I advocated a consideration of folding KK in PBG's hand from earlier this week, but I call here and quick. Here's why. First, it is a SnG, and they play looser than a multiple table tournament. The blinds go up quick (especially on Party) and as a result, you have to play more aggresively. Second, it just doesn't smell like AA to me here. It smells like he has a reasonable hand, but he doesn't want to have to play after the flop because it will take a lot of finesse. If I had three guesses, I'd say this player has AQ, JJ, or TT, but any A-broadway or medium pair is a definate possibility. Then again, just reading your post is a lot different than being there, so it's a lot tougher to get a read. Lastly, you have indicated no strength so far. In PBG's hand, she open raised and then the caller went all in. Much different. I think you could have avoided this trouble all together had you just raised before the flop. I really don't like the limp. You're letting others in cheaply and you will have a harder time reading their hands after the flop. You should be much more inclined to make this play with aces because no overcards can kill you, although I still don't like to do it. Good luck in future hands Dr Monkey! Lee | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, modestmice, 11. Oct 2003 16:26 | ||
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| ouch. what did roy or someone say last week? don't play scared. you dont have to be crazy. a call here is good, but i think its funny Lee thinks u should call (this time) when i actually feel like you COULD fold here because u are risking half your stack and maybe dont feel good about what the other player has. you just started the tourny and sometimes u wanna warm up and get a feel for players before hitting allin. its always imortant to think about stacks like u did and not just the 2 cards. but i woulda called in a sec, lol on 11. Oct 2003 15:38 Dr_Monkey wrote: > I was in a $10 SnG on Party. > > Blind 25/50 with 8 players left. 2 large stack, rest were about same size, > probably 450-900. > > I am UTG, with KK. Normally I would raise this hand, but I decide to change it > up some. Partly because I just won a decent pot by raising preflop, getting one > caller, then winning the pot with a pot sized bet when I had nothing. > > My plan was to see the flop cheaply, if a ace hit, I could fold. If not, bet > hard, maybe all in. > > 1 caller then next player went all in for 500. All folded to me. > > My concern was maybe he had AA. I know the odds are against that but I wasn't > worried about my chip count. I had 850 and the 2 chip leaders were keeping the > others in check. I actually was 3rd, maybe 4th to a player with maybe 900. > > My opinion of the player with 900 was he would bust soon based on his bad hands > and suck out luck. > > My thoughts on the all in player were they could be on any Ax or smaller pair. > Betting 500 to win 3.5 BB seems a bit desperate. But this is party and this bet > could be AA hoping to trap some maniac. > > If we were 5 or less players, I think I would have called the all in. Crazy > thinking? > > I folded not willing to risk the SnG this early especially when I wasn't > worried about my play (i.e. I felt I was one of the best players there) and I > wasn't worried about my stack size. > > Comment? | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, Schuster, 11. Oct 2003 16:42 | ||
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| LOL modest. Well since we're on it, PBG had to risk half her stack in the same situation, but there is more in the pot proportionally now. What do you think is the difference in hands that causes you to think about folding? Lee | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, modestmice, 11. Oct 2003 17:11 | ||
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| lol, im just kidding with u dude. i would call either one, and u should too. lol, u need to teachme to be tighter though... GRAND SLAM CUBS wooohoooo on 11. Oct 2003 16:42 Schuster wrote: > LOL modest. Well since we're on it, PBG had to risk half her stack in the same situation, > but there is more in the pot proportionally now. What do you think is the difference in > hands that causes you to think about folding? > > Lee | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, modestmice, 11. Oct 2003 17:15 | ||
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| forgot to say, you are right about this being more of call (even though i dont agree about your last KK laydown post) if you didnt agree to call i was going to think u were the tightest dude ever (!) lol on 11. Oct 2003 17:11 modestmice wrote: > lol, im just kidding with u dude. i would call either one, and u should too. lol, u need to > teachme to be tighter though... > > GRAND SLAM CUBS wooohoooo > > > on 11. Oct 2003 16:42 Schuster wrote: > > LOL modest. Well since we're on it, PBG had to risk half her stack in the same situation, > > > but there is more in the pot proportionally now. What do you think is the difference in > > hands that causes you to think about folding? > > > > Lee | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, KJo, 11. Oct 2003 17:06 | ||
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| Yeah, I agree with the others, that was an easy call. Something not said here or in PBG's responses is that in a tournament you're not going to get great hands all night, so you MUST capitalize when you do. Are you thinking "I'll wait for the next time I get KK and pop them then?" Now when you have the opportunity handed to you on a silver platter to put all your chips in with the second best hand, with these circumstances, you do it. And Lee was right, the all in bet doesn't smell like AA at all. And if it is, god bless him. Eli on 11. Oct 2003 15:38 Dr_Monkey wrote: > I was in a $10 SnG on Party. > > Blind 25/50 with 8 players left. 2 large stack, rest were about same size, > probably 450-900. > > I am UTG, with KK. Normally I would raise this hand, but I decide to change it > up some. Partly because I just won a decent pot by raising preflop, getting one > caller, then winning the pot with a pot sized bet when I had nothing. > > My plan was to see the flop cheaply, if a ace hit, I could fold. If not, bet > hard, maybe all in. > > 1 caller then next player went all in for 500. All folded to me. > > My concern was maybe he had AA. I know the odds are against that but I wasn't > worried about my chip count. I had 850 and the 2 chip leaders were keeping the > others in check. I actually was 3rd, maybe 4th to a player with maybe 900. > > My opinion of the player with 900 was he would bust soon based on his bad hands > and suck out luck. > > My thoughts on the all in player were they could be on any Ax or smaller pair. > Betting 500 to win 3.5 BB seems a bit desperate. But this is party and this bet > could be AA hoping to trap some maniac. > > If we were 5 or less players, I think I would have called the all in. Crazy > thinking? > > I folded not willing to risk the SnG this early especially when I wasn't > worried about my play (i.e. I felt I was one of the best players there) and I > wasn't worried about my stack size. > > Comment? | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, Dr_Monkey, 11. Oct 2003 22:30 | ||
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| I wasn't thinking I will wait for KK again. It was more like, "I think I am the best player at this table after watching 20+ hands." Just had a feeling that even if he had Ax, I was risking too much, too early. on 11. Oct 2003 17:06 KJo wrote: > going to get great hands all night, so you MUST capitalize when you do. Are you > thinking "I'll wait for the next time I get KK and pop them then?" Now when you have | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, Pamela, 11. Oct 2003 18:11 | ||
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| you win a pot size bet with nothing and you are to chicken to go in with kk.. and yet you are the best player there...sounds fishy.. | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, modestmice, 11. Oct 2003 18:16 | ||
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| where is this pot size bet with nothing you speak of? i no see it in post... also, even though he should have called, i object to saying he's chicken, we dont know anything about that based on this 1 play . one bad play doesnt make a bad player. on 11. Oct 2003 18:11 Pamela wrote: > you win a pot size bet with nothing and you are to chicken to go in with kk.. and yet > you are the best player there...sounds fishy.. | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, modestmice, 11. Oct 2003 18:18 | ||
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| oh, i see it now. duhhh, sorry. on 11. Oct 2003 18:16 modestmice wrote: > where is this pot size bet with nothing you speak of? > i no see it in post... > also, even though he should have called, i object to saying he's chicken, we dont know > anything about that based on this 1 play . one bad play doesnt make a bad player. > > on 11. Oct 2003 18:11 Pamela wrote: > > you win a pot size bet with nothing and you are to chicken to go in with kk.. and yet > > > you are the best player there...sounds fishy.. | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, Pamela, 11. Oct 2003 18:21 | ||
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| Never said he was a bad player and yes he said he won a pot sized bet with nothing the hand before his kk. | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, modestmice, 11. Oct 2003 18:26 | ||
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| yes, i saw that after. on 11. Oct 2003 18:21 Pamela wrote: > Never said he was a bad player and yes he said he won a pot sized bet with nothing the hand > before his kk. | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, modestmice, 11. Oct 2003 18:32 | ||
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| no, from your post i gathered u thought he was a great player lol on 11. Oct 2003 18:21 Pamela wrote: > Never said he was a bad player and yes he said he won a pot sized bet with nothing the hand > before his kk. | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, Dr_Monkey, 11. Oct 2003 22:36 | ||
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| Remember this is a SnG on Party. So based on the action I saw from the players, I thought I was the best player there. Players that play 85s from LP who make their flush and are surprised when they are beatin by a higher flush, make me think they are not thinking about playing smart poker. Players who call to the river with 55, on a A J 7 flop and a Q on the turn. Lead me to believe they aren't very smart. For the record, I ended up winning, so I wasn't far off. I think I played to tight, BUT I had my reasons. Just wanted to see what others thought. Maybe next time this happens, I will call the all in. on 11. Oct 2003 18:11 Pamela wrote: > you win a pot size bet with nothing and you are to chicken to go in with kk.. and yet > you are the best player there...sounds fishy.. | ||
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| Doc Monkey, PBG, 13. Oct 2003 08:49 | ||
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| Gotta agree w/ most peeps on here. Never ever slow play your kings. "Miracle" cards only exist because they are FREE or CHEAP cards. I've made inside straights (ridiculously bizarre inside straights) from the big blind from having opponents who check, check, check and then they curse my "good" luck when I river. | ||
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| Re:PBG, gary ford, 17. Oct 2003 09:22 | ||
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| Are you paint ball girl and/or alyssa chang? | ||
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| Re: Re:PBG, PBG, 17. Oct 2003 10:35 | ||
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| Yes and yes | ||
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| Re: Re:PBG, gary ford, 17. Oct 2003 11:48 | ||
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| thank you | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, modestmice, 11. Oct 2003 18:25 | ||
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| btw, i think if you raise instead of slow playing, dude doesnt go allin after you. thinking about the limpers before him might have induced him to steal with a marginal hand. either way if he sees some power, he might just call and fold to a bet on the flop. as it happened you allowed someone else to dictate the action when u most likely had the best of him. in .on 11. Oct 2003 15:38 Dr_Monkey wrote: > I was in a $10 SnG on Party. > > Blind 25/50 with 8 players left. 2 large stack, rest were about same size, > probably 450-900. > > I am UTG, with KK. Normally I would raise this hand, but I decide to change it > up some. Partly because I just won a decent pot by raising preflop, getting one > caller, then winning the pot with a pot sized bet when I had nothing. > > My plan was to see the flop cheaply, if a ace hit, I could fold. If not, bet > hard, maybe all in. > > 1 caller then next player went all in for 500. All folded to me. > > My concern was maybe he had AA. I know the odds are against that but I wasn't > worried about my chip count. I had 850 and the 2 chip leaders were keeping the > others in check. I actually was 3rd, maybe 4th to a player with maybe 900. > > My opinion of the player with 900 was he would bust soon based on his bad hands > and suck out luck. > > My thoughts on the all in player were they could be on any Ax or smaller pair. > Betting 500 to win 3.5 BB seems a bit desperate. But this is party and this bet > could be AA hoping to trap some maniac. > > If we were 5 or less players, I think I would have called the all in. Crazy > thinking? > > I folded not willing to risk the SnG this early especially when I wasn't > worried about my play (i.e. I felt I was one of the best players there) and I > wasn't worried about my stack size. > > Comment? | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, Roy Cooke, 11. Oct 2003 19:31 | ||
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| I call.....And think it is a no-brainer......If you win the pot you get the chips...You have to play some situation and you may never get a better spot to acquire chips....Faint hearts don't become great tournament players... Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 11. Oct 2003 15:38 Dr_Monkey wrote: > I was in a $10 SnG on Party. > > Blind 25/50 with 8 players left. 2 large stack, rest were about same size, > probably 450-900. > > I am UTG, with KK. Normally I would raise this hand, but I decide to change it > up some. Partly because I just won a decent pot by raising preflop, getting one > caller, then winning the pot with a pot sized bet when I had nothing. > > My plan was to see the flop cheaply, if a ace hit, I could fold. If not, bet > hard, maybe all in. > > 1 caller then next player went all in for 500. All folded to me. > > My concern was maybe he had AA. I know the odds are against that but I wasn't > worried about my chip count. I had 850 and the 2 chip leaders were keeping the > others in check. I actually was 3rd, maybe 4th to a player with maybe 900. > > My opinion of the player with 900 was he would bust soon based on his bad hands > and suck out luck. > > My thoughts on the all in player were they could be on any Ax or smaller pair. > Betting 500 to win 3.5 BB seems a bit desperate. But this is party and this bet > could be AA hoping to trap some maniac. > > If we were 5 or less players, I think I would have called the all in. Crazy > thinking? > > I folded not willing to risk the SnG this early especially when I wasn't > worried about my play (i.e. I felt I was one of the best players there) and I > wasn't worried about my stack size. > > Comment? | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, PBG, 13. Oct 2003 08:44 | ||
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| I love it. Faint hearts don't become great tournament players. But neither do oblivious brains. Got KK in the pocket Sat. night and put in a decent raise. Got called by one stuffy old coot. Flop comes AAQ. I bet without hesitation and he comes over the top for an all-in. Now I slam on the brakes and think. I know he doesn't have quad aces or trip queens because he didn't re-raise me pre-flop. He's an older gent, LOOKS conservative, but then two things hit me. He has a friend who is about his age sitting next to him and I had watched this guy steal pots with J4 and 83 off suit a few times. The two seem to be pretty close (talked about family, cars, health, etc.) so I suspect that they've been poker buddies for a long time and may have the same kind of playing style. Secondly, he CAME OVER THE TOP WITH an all-in. If he suspects I have a big hand, I would think he'd want to milk it for all it's worth and raise me an amount I might call IF he had trip aces. I conclude that he's playing the board and wants to scare me away from the pot. I call, he turns over a pair of 6s and I turn over my kings. Nothing comes to his rescue, I take the pot. | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, modestmice, 13. Oct 2003 15:43 | ||
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| nice read on 13. Oct 2003 08:44 PBG wrote: > I love it. Faint hearts don't become great tournament players. But neither do oblivious > brains. Got KK in the pocket Sat. night and put in a decent raise. Got called by one > stuffy old coot. Flop comes AAQ. I bet without hesitation and he comes over the top for > an all-in. > > Now I slam on the brakes and think. I know he doesn't have quad aces or trip queens > because he didn't re-raise me pre-flop. He's an older gent, LOOKS conservative, but then > two things hit me. He has a friend who is about his age sitting next to him and I had > watched this guy steal pots with J4 and 83 off suit a few times. The two seem to be > pretty close (talked about family, cars, health, etc.) so I suspect that they've been > poker buddies for a long time and may have the same kind of playing style. > > Secondly, he CAME OVER THE TOP WITH an all-in. If he suspects I have a big hand, I would > think he'd want to milk it for all it's worth and raise me an amount I might call IF he > had trip aces. I conclude that he's playing the board and wants to scare me away from the > pot. I call, he turns over a pair of 6s and I turn over my kings. Nothing comes to his > rescue, I take the pot. | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, palman, 14. Oct 2003 07:52 | ||
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| If you don't utilize the situations where you know you're a favorite in SnG's you'll be in trouble. There was a strong chance he had QQ-99.....depending on the player he could even have as bad as KQ in these things because he's a shortstack. (although not likely... you get plenty of gifts on these things) Hell I played in one the other day.... first hand of the tournament. Blinds 10/15.... first player to act just throws it all in. From this move alone I don't put him on being any good, thus I don't think he'd think of this as a trap with aces to get someone in. And almost NO ONE wants to risk winning nothing with rockets, so I figured there was a great chance that my big slick was good, or at worst a toss up. He had QJ, and I lost it to a Q, but I figured there was about a 65% chance of me doubling up there(him being on A10 through AQ likely added with him having a pp), and after doubling up hand one I'm going to cash over 66% of the time, which makes it overall cashing about 43% of the time, which is about my average and more than profitable. (after re-reading my percents... my % of doubling up could decrease but I think the % of cashing after doubling up could increase... so they offset oneanother) | ||
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| Re: KK Lay Down, Dr_Monkey, 14. Oct 2003 08:34 | ||
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| I always wondered about the people that go all in when the blinds are 10/15. Why on earth does someone spend 800 to get 25 in chips? Unless you have AA and are trying to trap someone, I don't get it. Even with AK, you are a underdog to every pair. Slight as it may be, you are still an underdog. Doubling up on the first level doesn't guarentee making the money. Sure it helps, but the risk doesn't seem to justify the result. IMO. | ||
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| That's poker, Dr_Monkey, 14. Oct 2003 08:48 | ||
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| Believe it or not, this same hand came up again. I am UTG with about 800. 5 players left. Blinds 25/50 I raise to 100. 2 fold and one all in for 500. All fold to me. Thinking of this post. I figure I need to call. I am getting my money in with a good hand. I call and a Ace hits the river giving the ALL IN a pair of aces. She was holding A8o. So when this happens, you just say "that's poker" and keep playing? I didn't slow play. And called with the 2nd best possible pre-flop hand. | ||
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| Re: That's poker, Boftx, 15. Oct 2003 14:37 | ||
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| I just have to observe that in the 2nd case you showed agression first and the opp still came over the top. That just screams Ax on party and KK has to be careful. | ||
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