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Server Time: 12/1/2008 11:47:51 AM PACIFIC |
 Low Pairs in Garbage Flop, mkpoker, 8. Oct 2003 22:28 | ||
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| ...And here's a second hand from 5/10 UB HE tonight. In MP, I'm dealt 55. Table has been loose-passive, so I'm confident we'll get many callers and it's not likely the pot will be raised pre-flop (if the table were a different texture, I'd muck the hand). I open-limp and get 4 limpers behind me, including the BB. Flop comes 6d3h3c. BB checks. I figure It's quite likely this flop missed everyone and my 2-pair is best. I also guess that someone has a couple of overcards and will throw a bet into this pot as a bluff, giving me a chance to check-raise. So I check and sure enough, a super-loose LP player bets, I raise and only LP calls. The turn is a 2, giving me a gutshot straight to go with my 2-pair. So I think I've got the best hand here, and if I'm wrong, I've got at least 6 outs (4 fours and 2 fives). So I bet out. LP raises, which distresses me. I call. River is a T. I check.. LP bets. He's such a loose player that anything is possible, so I call. He shows J3o...a set of threes.. Question: Should I have open-raised with my 55? It might have driven out junk hands like J3o...but it would have denied me the multiple callers hoped for when shooting for a set? | ||
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| Re: Low Pairs in Garbage Flop, SendMoney, 9. Oct 2003 00:59 | ||
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| You stepped into one of the pitfalls of playing small pairs - which many players do. I think that with small pairs say 22 thru 66 you should limp in when conditions look favorable and you can predict 5 players (preferably all limpers), this gives you odds to hit your set. So what about the other times when you don't hit your set? Should you automatically fold to a flop bet? Chase all the way when the board looks raggy? Like anything else...it depends. It depends on the number of opponents, whether or not there was a pre-flop raiser, the looseness of the other players in the hand, etc. It can be hard to tell whether an opponent holds AK or QQ when you hold 55 and the flop comes 2 4 9 rainbow. Tough as it may be the best bet may be to simply fold to a bet on the flop and save your funds to pump it up when you do hit your set. Anytime you play a hand where there is at least a 50% chance you are drawing to 2 outs, and perhaps even DRAWING DEAD (other people hit sets too) to 2 outs then that is a situation you should strive to avoid. | ||
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| Re: Low Pairs in Garbage Flop, Poker God, 9. Oct 2003 01:57 | ||
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| in my opinion it would depend on wether or not bets preflop were getting any respect. if so then i would go ahead and bet it. also if no one else had enter the pot at that point a bet could be effective. it would drive out the possible limpers like the one with J3 and it would put you in better position to win the hand as you would be a slight favorite over the other LP hands. | ||
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| Re: Low Pairs in Garbage Flop, Formless, 9. Oct 2003 07:26 | ||
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| > Question: Should I have open-raised with my 55? No, I think you should have folded it, although I'd call with 66 so it is close. When I play these hands I want to be in late position and have multiple callers in front of me, not hypothetical maybe-they-will-raise callers behind me, even in a loose passive game. It is a late position hand. In a tight-aggressive game that is raked, I think 55 is a borderline open-raise from 3 off the button and is a clear fold from 4 off the button. | ||
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| Re: Low Pairs in Garbage Flop, mroban, 9. Oct 2003 12:27 | ||
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| Interesting. If this guy is as loose as you say, he might call any raise preflop. I forget, did he limp in front of you? If he limped in front of you, no way he folds for one more bet. If not, its tough to say. Alot of players will play any ace and face card and any two suited and any two connected cards suited or not. Tough to drive out players like that with a raise. Some other guys only play any two suited and will play the connectors and any ace and any king (but will muck hands like Q2o and J3o). It is really irritating to lose hands like that. I would have played it the same way. I like calling with a table like that in that spot too. But there are some great players I know that have a rule of "no set no bet" under any circumstance (unless their pair was top pair on a weird flop like a 235 flop with wired 66 because then you have top pair and the gutbuster draw). I have been adhering to that lately (unless I am on the button and everyone checks on the flop and then on the river again, then I would probably make a bet on the turn). Since I never seem to hit my set I am not making much money doing it :). But seriously, it saves some money in those spots and when you hit your set it obviously pays off very nicely (usually - except when they draw out and hit their straight runner, runner). Anyway mk, obviously I am not one of the experts, but I probably would have played it exactly the same (notwithstanding the rule). No way you could put anyone on J3, I mean cmon. | ||
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