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Server Time: 12/1/2008 11:18:47 AM PACIFIC |
 Mediocre hand from BB...Comments Please, mkpoker, 8. Oct 2003 22:13 | ||
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| 5/10 HE Online. I'm new to the table, but the stats show it's quite loose (40+% of players seeing flops and big average pots). From the BB, I'm dealt J4o. Two early limpers, SB limps, I check for the free play. Flop is 25J with two spades. I've got top pair, poor kicker. SB bets. I raise. SB could be trying to steal by betting into this rag flop, and if not, I'll probably get the two early limpers to fold so I can be heads up with the button. If either of early limpers re-raises, I'll fold. Both limpers fold, SB calls. Turn comes Ks, completing the flush draw. SB checks. I bet, thinking I probably have the best hand. With either a flush or a K, I figure SB would have bet out. He calls. River is 3c, pretty much a blank (though it could have made a wheel straight). SB checks. I bet again, thinking that either a) I've got the best hand or b) if SB holds a better check, he might just fold it. He calls and turns over JTd and out kicks me. So, was I too aggressive on this hand? | ||
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| Re: Mediocre hand from BB...Comments Please, Schuster, 8. Oct 2003 22:38 | ||
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| I think you played the hand well up until the river. I know there's been a big "bet the river!" thing floating around lately and I really think it's good, but I do not think it's warrented in this circumstance. What hands could he hold that will pay you off and be worse? Maybe a medium pocket pair, but that's really all I can think of. Look at it from his perspective. He bets out and you raise with 2 early position limpers still left to act. That suggests a lot of strength. You then bet the turn again after the flush card hits. It's pretty obvious that you aren't on the flush draw (why would you want to raise people out of the pot on the flop?) but you don't know that he isn't. So on 4th street, he really has to have a jack, a king, or big spade to see if he can hit the flush on the river. Now the river is essentially a blank. If you bet, you will get called if he has a jack or a king, and he will fold if he was drawing to a big spade. I believe that your bet has a very high negative EV in this situation as you will only rarely get called when you are winning. This is a good situation to check it down. Lee | ||
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| Re: Mediocre hand from BB...Comments Please, Big_Loser1, 9. Oct 2003 01:53 | ||
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| I agree no need to bet the river here. You would only get called if you were beat. Unless you had a read on him that he folds easy to aggressors no need to bet. | ||
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| Re: Mediocre hand from BB...Comments Please, Schuster, 8. Oct 2003 22:38 | ||
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| I think you played the hand well up until the river. I know there's been a big "bet the river!" thing floating around lately and I really think it's good, but I do not think it's warrented in this circumstance. What hands could he hold that will pay you off and be worse? Maybe a medium pocket pair, but that's really all I can think of. Look at it from his perspective. He bets out and you raise with 2 early position limpers still left to act. That suggests a lot of strength. You then bet the turn again after the flush card hits. It's pretty obvious that you aren't on the flush draw (why would you want to raise people out of the pot on the flop?) but you don't know that he isn't. So on 4th street, he really has to have a jack, a king, or big spade to see if he can hit the flush on the river. Now the river is essentially a blank. If you bet, you will get called if he has a jack or a king, and he will fold if he was drawing to a big spade. I believe that your bet has a very high negative EV in this situation as you will only rarely get called when you are winning. This is a good situation to check it down. Lee | ||
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| Re: Mediocre hand from BB...Comments Please, PairTheBoard, 9. Oct 2003 15:52 | ||
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| I think one of the reasons for raising the flop is to allow you to slow the action down on the later streets. It's similar to making a flop raise to set up a free card on the turn. It sets you up to take a free look at the river showdown. You have forced him to pay if you are best, forced overcards out of the hand, given you a chance to win the pot, and mitigated damages if you are beat. It's because of plays like this that raises on the flop by certain players are actually often signs of weakness. | ||
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