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Server Time: 12/1/2008 2:51:11 PM PACIFIC |
 How to play this (and looking for a little direction), Palinya, 8. Oct 2003 00:10 | ||
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| It's a kill game.... I have Ac Ks on the button, I bet and get 4 callers board comes up Qc Jc Ts... I made a straight but the flush draw worries. I bet and everyone folds except 2 people and myself and we cap the betting right here. I am trying to make them pay for any flush draws they are looking for. The river comes up 3s so there are 2 clubs and 2 spades on the board. I'm not too worried about the spades because I don't think they'd cap the flop bet with only 3 of the flush. So I'm putting them on trip Qs or Js or maybe a straight... maybe the club flush draw. I have the nut straight so I'm not too worried. If they are going after the same flush draw there aren't many of them left especially since I have one of each of the flush draws. So here we go... we cap out the betting again. The spade comes up which is in my mind the least likely flush draw out there since the last 2 came on the turn and the river. They cap the river on me again Sure enough... he had the flush. It was a very, very expensive hand especially since it was a kill hand. I've put in about 200 hours on-line playing poker since I started learning and now I'm down $40 even though 40 hours ago I was up $200. I am getting pretty frustrated with the whole thing. I've read Lee Jones' Book twice and Ken Warren's book once and I am not sure what I'm doing wrong. Is it common to make only 10-20 big bets a night and then have a bad stream of luck and lose 50+ big bets in a night? I'm seeing about 25% of the flops but end up folding after the flop comes up about 80% of the time since it misses me totally. I can't seem to win on AA, KK or AK. If I stay on something like TT in late position, an overcard always comes up so I end up folding. When I stay on KK an Ace comes up. AA almost always brings me a straight or flush draw that hits or a K on the board when someone else is holding KK. Am I expecting too much? Did everyone lose when they first started out? I just don't know where to go from here. Is 200 on-line hours just not a big enough sample time to get an accurate view of how I'm doing or should I be up by now? I said something to someone about getting rivered all the time and he said, "Sometimes it works for you and sometimes it works against you"... But the fact is, it almost never, ever, ever works for me because if I don't have it, I'm usually out before the river card comes up. (unless I have pot odds which isn't too often) | ||
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| Re: How to play this (and looking for a little direction), modestmouser, 8. Oct 2003 00:30 | ||
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| you played it perfectly, that should be clear. low limit is all about people sucking out on you with runner runner b.s. in my opinion. especially online, when these poker geeks spend all their lifes in front of a monitor clicking clicking, its easy for them to click , they may have a huge bankroll, be stupid, feel lucky etc. just keep playing the game well and youll prevail > It's a kill game.... > > I have Ac Ks on the button, I bet and get 4 callers > > board comes up Qc Jc Ts... I made a straight but the flush draw worries. I bet > and everyone folds except 2 people and myself and we cap the betting right here. > I am trying to make them pay for any flush draws they are looking for. > > The river comes up 3s so there are 2 clubs and 2 spades on the board. I'm not > too worried about the spades because I don't think they'd cap the flop bet with > only 3 of the flush. So I'm putting them on trip Qs or Js or maybe a > straight... maybe the club flush draw. I have the nut straight so I'm not too > worried. If they are going after the same flush draw there aren't many of them > left especially since I have one of each of the flush draws. > > So here we go... we cap out the betting again. The spade comes up which is in > my mind the least likely flush draw out there since the last 2 came on the turn > and the river. They cap the river on me again > > Sure enough... he had the flush. > > It was a very, very expensive hand especially since it was a kill hand. I've > put in about 200 hours on-line playing poker since I started learning and now > I'm down $40 even though 40 hours ago I was up $200. I am getting pretty > frustrated with the whole thing. I've read Lee Jones' Book twice and Ken > Warren's book once and I am not sure what I'm doing wrong. > > Is it common to make only 10-20 big bets a night and then have a bad stream of > luck and lose 50+ big bets in a night? > > I'm seeing about 25% of the flops but end up folding after the flop comes up > about 80% of the time since it misses me totally. I can't seem to win on AA, KK > or AK. > > If I stay on something like TT in late position, an overcard always comes up so > I end up folding. When I stay on KK an Ace comes up. AA almost always brings > me a straight or flush draw that hits or a K on the board when someone else is > holding KK. > > Am I expecting too much? Did everyone lose when they first started out? I > just don't know where to go from here. Is 200 on-line hours just not a big > enough sample time to get an accurate view of how I'm doing or should I be up by > now? > > I said something to someone about getting rivered all the time and he said, > "Sometimes it works for you and sometimes it works against you"... But the fact > is, it almost never, ever, ever works for me because if I don't have it, I'm > usually out before the river card comes up. (unless I have pot odds which isn't > too often) | ||
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| Re: How to play this (and looking for a little direction), Angel, 8. Oct 2003 04:34 | ||
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| "Am I expecting too much? Did everyone lose when they first started out? I just don't know where to go from here. Is 200 on-line hours just not a big enough sample time to get an accurate view of how I'm doing or should I be up by now?" The above is what I really wanted to address but before I do - it is very likely that without a very good read on my opponents to the contrary, that I would have saved a bet on the turn simply because the flush IS possible - even idiots flop perfect sometimes. That's a small thing actually - but the title of your post was "How to play this..." so I though I'd throw that in there. No, 200 hours is not a big enough sample. Bittersweet news isn't it? Anyway - if you are hitting it for 1 BB an hour it is possible that you are negative at this point. As a matter of fact, the point at which it becomes virtually impossible for a winning player to be in the red, as a result of short term luck, is after about 800 - 1000 hours. (Assuming a constant limit) Right - but you're at 200 hours. Figure your results are within 1.25 BB's an hr. If you were at a B&M I would suggest a bigger number but more hands are dealt out online and that will necessarily change things. If you are playing $5/$10 for instance and you are losing $1000 (which is $5/hour or 0.5 BB's/hr) you could still be as much as $7.50/hour winning player experiencing the results of short term luck. On the other hand, you could be as much as $17.50/hour losing player. So what use is this? Well, you know you still have work to do on your game - keep working. In the meantime, take solace in the fact that your results don't prove anything yet and losing $40 after 200 hours is pretty much break even. I'm going out of town to play for a few days - I'll answer questions, accusations and flames about this post when I get back. *grin* | ||
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| Re: How to play this (and looking for a little direction), Pedro, 8. Oct 2003 07:04 | ||
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| I wouldn't of capped it on the river for a few reasons cause idiots will play anything in a kill game. I do mean anything they are not folding they want action and they don't care about money. Which is great for you that they don't care about money but you need to know that the flush draw isnt leaving. Another thing it sounds to me that your playing to tight and not agressive enough. I wouldn't give up on my strong hands like ak just cause someone bets infact usually i am raising them. If you have cut it down to 2 or 3 players your ace high still may be the best hand and if you catch the king you probably have the best hand I would be careful with the ace. Mix up your play be agressive when you feel your the best hand. Good players will raise you with nothing if they know you are a beginner and can be pushed around. If you play agressive with your really strong hands over the long run your going to win money. | ||
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| Re: How to play this (and looking for a little direction), Palinya, 8. Oct 2003 08:00 | ||
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| I didn't really have a choice but to cap the river... I was calling it but the other 2 kept raising each other. I guess I could have folded the A high straight but they were capping it since the flop so I didn't know if the river helped them or not | ||
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| Re: How to play this (and looking for a little direction), modestmice, 8. Oct 2003 22:19 | ||
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| you cannot fold with the nut str with 2 maniacs, at worst u lose, at best they have AK too or the lower end. never fold in the situation you discribe, there are so many bets in that pot! what if yer wrong? on 8. Oct 2003 08:00 Palinya wrote: > I didn't really have a choice but to cap the river... I was calling it but the other 2 kept > raising each other. > > I guess I could have folded the A high straight but they were capping it since the flop so I > didn't know if the river helped them or not | ||
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| Re: How to play this (and looking for a little direction), Big_Loser1, 8. Oct 2003 21:38 | ||
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| I agree with the not being aggressive enough. If you have a pocket pair and an overcard comes, just cause someone bets doesn't mean they have the over card. They could bet a draw or maybe even second pair. If I read your post correctly you just throw it away if an overcard comes. I would be more inclined to raise depending on the game, my reads and pre flop action. I would worry about cards that are bad for your hand but don't just throw your hand away cause one comes out. | ||
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| Re: How to play this (and looking for a little direction), shorn, 8. Oct 2003 08:35 | ||
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| I think you played the hand fine and just got unlucky at the end. There will be hands, sessions, weeks, even months IN A ROW where it will go like that. The best thing you can do is to understand that playing correctly WILL GET THE MONEY IN THE LONG RUN. I think you need to call the river here unless the last card is the flush card AND it pairs the board. Yes, you lost 3 more bets that you could have saved, but those were insiginficant to the size of the pot at that point. One error that costs you a pot that big could mean you have to play 30-50 more hours to make it up. I will throw 3 bets in there for that any day. Keep plugging. | ||
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