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Server Time: 12/1/2008 11:34:36 AM PACIFIC |
 Any way to avoid this beating?, mkpoker, 5. Oct 2003 19:22 | ||
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| Lost a bundle on this hand...looking back, I'm not sure if there's anything I could have differently. Feels like a deal that's just destined to hurt. We're at 3/6 HE online at UB. I'm relatively new to the table--it seems pretty standard. From MP, I open-raise with JJ. MP2 calls, button re-raises. I cap (which I know is debatable, but I was hoping to drive out MP2 if he held a middle ace hand like AT, AJ, or even AQ). All call. We take the flop 3 handed. Flop comes JQ7 rainbow--giving me a set of Jacks. With an overcard and a straight draw, I'm not slowplaing here, so I bet out. MP2 raises. I figure he's on a hand like AQ, which is fine with me! Button calls. I reraise, all call. Turn comes 7h, pairing the board, giving me Jacks full, and eliminating all flush possibilities. With the pot this big, I bet right out. MP2 raises, LP calls. I'm a bit concerned by MP2's raise, but I'm only beat at this point ONLY by QQ and 77. 77 seems out of the question given all the pre-flop and flop action, and while QQ is possible, I remember that MP2 called my pre-flop raise rather than 3-betting, so I figure he's on AQ, AJ, or even QJs. River comes 6c--a total blank. I bet, MP2 raises, button calls. Now I'm officially spooked by MP2's play and begin to come to grips with the real possibility that I'm beat. I call, thinking a raise too risky (and of course a fold is out of the question). Sure enough, MP2 held QQ--his Queens full beats my jacks full. LP held AA. (Two quick side notes: 1) What are the odds of JJ, QQ, and AA on the same hand?!?; and 2) MP2 proceeded to get 3 MORE FHs over the next hour). Anyone think I could have avoided this spanking? (All other comments welcome, of course). | ||
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| Re: Any way to avoid this beating?, 4 POKER, 5. Oct 2003 19:41 | ||
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| Hi, How are you going to avoid that? I think you played your hand correctly. Your re-raise coming in was correct because you were trying to take the hand heads up between you and the button, and you were trying to get rid of the MP2 player so your two jacks could hold up. (okay, so the re-raiser had two Aces, but that's besides the point. You didn't know that). The MP2 player lost one extra big bet on the turn by not capping it off. And when he *doesn't* raise you back here, you're supposed to bet the river again. There's not much you can do here. Ya know, I thought you were going to say that the MP player had pocket 7's, which to me....would have made more sense being that he never put a raise in himself preflop, but called the raises from you and the other player with the two Aces. Not that it matters though, QQ and 7-7 would both have J-J beat once the turn card came out. If the *original* preflop raiser had raised and re-raised the flop and the turn, I would have backed off from betting the river putting him on pocket Q's. That's IF I was certain of my read. Tough break mk. Well played regardless. 4P- | ||
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| Re: Any way to avoid this beating?, Piers Majestyk, 5. Oct 2003 21:34 | ||
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| You failed to say if you reraised the turn but from your message it sounds like you did. If you raised and the QQ didn't cap the turn I think he played it beautifully because if he caps the aces may very well fold (perhaps not as well given the pot size) and he only gets your call on the turn and probably one more on the river. By just calling your rerasie he kept what he knew was probably AA or KK in the hand for sure and also knew that you would lead again at the river and barring a A or K he could get at least 2 bets from you and possibly 2 more from the aces. You just ran into a tough break. Perhaps you could have slowed down when he raised the turn because he did call 4 bets preflop so you have to consider that hand is out there and then check call the river but I can't say I wouldn't have lost as much as you did as well. tough break' | ||
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| Re: Any way to avoid this beating?, 4 POKER, 5. Oct 2003 21:54 | ||
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| Hey Piers, (it also sounded to me that mkpoker reraised the turn as well- going by what his 'read' was on the player in MP2). I'm not so sure I agree with what you said about that the MP2 player playing his his hand beautifully on the turn though. Even if he put the button on AA, or KK, once the button calls two bets cold on the turn, he's supposed to cap off the betting here. One reason being: If he thinks the button (or even mkpoker) has a bigger pocket pair, and by seeing how aggresive mk was and how willingly the button was to call all those bets and raises.....he's supposed to try and extract as much as he can here and cap off the betting round. Another reason is: if he thinks that one or both of them have a pocket pair that can 'hit' on the river and beat his Q's full....he has to make them pay dearly to get there. He's the favorite for sure, and there's no question about it.....but when he see's that the other two are jammin' the pot, and/or are calling all raises.....there's no need to miss any bets. 4P- | ||
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| Re: Any way to avoid this beating?, Piers Majestyk, 5. Oct 2003 22:10 | ||
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| Perhaps you're right. I was putting myself in th eplace of the 2 people holding teh AA and JJ. If the queens caps the turn my aces hit the muck and i only check call with the jacks which would cost him money but seeing how bullheaded many people are with holding those aa's to the river your play may very well have more value in the long run. | ||
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| Re: Any way to avoid this beating?, shorn, 7. Oct 2003 13:54 | ||
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| Not only what you point out 4P, but the pot is pretty huge at this point and the over-riding play needs to be win it ASAP. Eliminating a few players who could miracle outdraw me is the main reason that I would cap with QQ. | ||
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| Re: Any way to avoid this beating?, mkpoker, 5. Oct 2003 22:48 | ||
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| Sorry Piers, my post was unclear (I've gone back and edited the original). In fact, I did reraise the turn based on my read that MP2 was unlikely to hold QQ, largely because he didn't re-raise pre-flop. I considered the fact that he only called my turn raise, rather than re-reraising, as further confirmation. Because I was reasonably sure that MP2 had AQ, I bet the river (I figured LP for AA or KK). When he raised my river bet, I felt that sinking feeling and called only. Though I can't be sure, I'd guess you're right that MP2 called my turn raise rather than capping to keep the pot 3-way...and it may have been a good play. Still, I question his not reraising with QQ after my open raise. With players still to act, I would have reraised for the purpose of driving out drawing hands that could come back to bite. | ||
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| Re: Any way to avoid this beating?, mdroban, 6. Oct 2003 06:08 | ||
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| Looks like you got UB'd. | ||
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| Re: Any way to avoid this beating?, noiseboy, 7. Oct 2003 16:25 | ||
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| Nope, with set over set, if you don't lose a bundle you are doing it wrong. He probably didn't reraise to keep the pot multiway, figuring he'd get the large PP to call the river too. BTW, was I in that hand? It sounds awfully close to a hand I had last night, or maybe I'm just having weird deja vu. | ||
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